Where's the sin

[The Chairman]

On one side is Double125 and his t-rusty scissors, ready to extricate an unconscious diver out of his BP & wings.

On the other side is NetDoc and his fingers, ready to extricate another unconcious diver out of a traditional back inflate (with sternum strap, fastek buckles and cumberbun).

Is there even a question who would win this race? You want safety? I am not talking about comfort here at all.

Now, I will not make anyone dive with fastek buckles... it is your choice. But I would hasten to point out that your preference is HARDLY based on incontrovertible evidence that they are safer. They just don't belong on your "uniform" and that's the real issue. If someone who shall not be mentioned were to put them on his BC, then you would probably find incontrovertible proof on how safe they were... citing the same "studies" which could still not be presented.

My advice to many tek divers (or even tek wannabes)... repeat after me... say "I don't like them!" or "They look like they might fail!" These are true statements for you. You don't need to invent (or let someone else invent) studies that corroborate this or that. You don't have to make any indefensible statements in trying to prove something for which you have no data to back you up. It is the unvarnished truth of which you need not be ashamed.

Think of the benefits... your credibility will rise dramatically! You will be able to look at things more logically and less emotionally. Just some food for thought on this hot July day! Time to go diving my friends!!! Last one in gets a tank dropped from 18" on their head! :tease:

 

[HarleyDiver]

You crack me up, thats great...

I'll bet they wouldn't like your red wings either...:upset:

 

[double125's]

NetDoc once bubbled...

Time to go diving my friends!!! Last one in gets a tank dropped from 18" on their head! :tease:

Waiting for the weekend- My camera housing for my OLY just came in. I cant wait to get home and see it. I will dive it empty here in the next night or two then it is off to medina lake for some U/W photography. Happy diving to all!

 

[JeffAustin]

NetDoc once bubbled...
On the other side is NetDoc and his fingers, ready to extricate another unconcious diver out of a traditional back inflate (with sternum strap, fastek buckles and cumberbun).

Is there even a question who would win this race? You want safety? I am not talking about comfort here at all.

fastex buckles are real fun with gloves on!! We don't all dive in warm water with bare hands. If we had your race in cold water, I think you would lose; three pieces of webbing can be cut a lot faster with shears than someone in gloves trying to undo Fastex buckles, especially those smaller ones on shoulder straps.

 

[The Chairman]

about different buckles then. I will accept your challenge with any thickness of glove AS LONG AS the guy with the scissors has them too! Some of those scissors have awful tiny holes in them. Remember, the webbing (like the buckles) have to be soaking wet (simulating a dive).

Did you want to drop a tank from 18" on the gloves and scissors first? We can do that ONLY if my hands don't have to be in the gloves at hammer time! :tease:

 

[JeffAustin]

You've actually played around with these buckles in cold water with gloves on?

Do you ever dive in cold water?

You are talking about Fastex side release buckles found on shoulder straps, right?

 

[The Chairman]

but however the cold affects MY dexterity, it will also affect the dexterity of the other racer! BTW, my idea of cold is a 68 degree spring, tho I have been in water down to 54 degrees in OW and 48 in pool water. I had to repair the pool (drill and tap two holes then thread screws in) and did it sans gloves.

Did I mess with my fastek buckles then? No need to! But the bulk of the glove would not slow me down that much.

You see, I hike in the cold and snow, and can operate fastek buckles with thick ski gloves or mittens on. Easier to get them apart than back together, and that goes for any size from 1/2" to 1 1/2". You can find them on my tent, sleeping bag straps, the big strap that holds my pack to a tree at night as well as those that hold flaps down on my camera and GPS pockets. Beats having to deal with knots in the cold!!! AND... I have done hundreds of miles on the Appalachian Trail, 60 or so in the Rockies and even gone down rivers (in a canoe) and have yet to have a fastek buckle break or give out on me. Call me "Mr Lucky"!

But have I tried fastek buckles in 38 dgree water with diving gloves on??? No... you got me there. I better go and erase all my posts now that I have been "found out"! :tease:

BTW, last year I dropped a tank @ 24" on to my right pinky toe. I got the Frankentoe award for that stroke of brilliance! Although the other pinky toe has not thus been tested, I continue to throw caution to the wind and dive with it anyway. :tease:

 

[MHK]

curtmdavis once bubbled...
I most recently opened a post in the general tech diving section as to whether or not I should take a DIR-F course. I am sure that I will after reading some of the replies left by the obviously more intelligent DIR followers.
http://www.scubaboard.com/t31262/s.html
My question, although I am sure it will be answered by the time I have finished said course is, since the OMS IQ is little more than a BPW with a little cushion for sniveling wienies like my self, where is the sin in it? If it is being used with a BP installed inside the pocket, the only true difference I can se other than some padding for panty wearing individuals such as my self is the cursed “FASTEX” buckles. (A debate, which has been beaten to death, without a doubt.) While I’m sure this topic has also been ridden like an old horse, please let me know your HONEST personal feelings about it, I mean is it really that bad? By the way, I have supported my own wait from the deadly “FASTEX” buckle without failure. (Children do not attempt this at home with out your wife’s nagging supervision.)

FASTEX is a trademark of Taiwan

Rather then debate, yet again, the minuate of quick releases I'd like to just adress a few points from a broader perspective. The idea behind the desire not to use quick releases is that it could fail, and constitutes an unnecessary failure point. For example, my old BC before I converted to DIR is still sitting in my garage with a broken quick release. The point isn't will it happen, it's when will it happen. That being said, why risk it??? It serves no useful purpose and it is generally viewed upon as a crutch. What I hear more often then not is that the quick releases make getting in and out of my gear easier. To which I respond with two answers:

1) Is your gear designed for diving in the water or for sitting on the boat??

2) and more importantly, if you need a quick release it's likely that the harness isn't adjusted properly. We teach rather then put potential failure points onto the harness that it's safer and more efficient to properly size the harness in the first place..

We don't subscribe to the theory of adding failure points, to solve other problems.. Now I respect that you may want to dive with them, but please also understand that if goes against the notion of approaching the dive from the safest and most efficient concept so we reserve the right to set our standards and procedures.. I'm confident that other agencies will take a lesser stance against the relaxed gear requirements so I wish you luck..

However if you wish to continue the dialogue I'll be happy to answer any question you have..

Later

 

[Jonathan]

I have two on my wing but one is threaded closed. For the other one on my IANTD Technical Diver course I had to swim around with it undone for 5 minutes - no worries, no stress

Jonathan

 

[RichLockyer]

NetDoc once bubbled...
Double125... was this the same "study" that determined that horizontal off-gassing is supposed to be the best?

The myth of the horizontal offgassing study MAY have been made up by someone who, being well intended, did not understand the true reason behind maintaining a horizontal position.
It doesn't make being horizontal any less desireable, it just changes the reason for doing so.

FWIW: What is taught as proper procedure during a runaway ascent? Flare. Why not remain in the flare position as a normal habit and perhaps avoid the runaway ascent all together?