captain
Contributor
Sort of like what do you call the person who finished last in his class at medical school, answer Doctor.
Why do so many poorly skilled divers...
- Thread starter gcbryan
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
sandman49
Guest
A little perspective here. Just finishing up the DM course through my local dive shop. Started in July 07, will finish next week ( Jan 08). It has been one of the most intense and thorough classes I have taken in diving. When completed I feel I will be well qualified to perform the duties of a DM. Reason? An instructor who took his role seriously and would not let me or the rest of my class vary from the standards or expectations of the course!
Sure, there are some people in all recreational activities who you look at and wonder how in the world did they get licensed/certified . I think the underlying problem is that some who teach don't expect or demand the level of excellence required in whatever program they are teaching.
Bottom line is, some people have no business doing certain things in life, especially when you are responsible for the safety of others. More instructors need to take those marginal/poor divers aside and explain to them why " this is not for you " until you are able to demonstrate the demeanor/skills/excellence that is required to be identified as a "Dive Master".
Sure, there are some people in all recreational activities who you look at and wonder how in the world did they get licensed/certified . I think the underlying problem is that some who teach don't expect or demand the level of excellence required in whatever program they are teaching.
Bottom line is, some people have no business doing certain things in life, especially when you are responsible for the safety of others. More instructors need to take those marginal/poor divers aside and explain to them why " this is not for you " until you are able to demonstrate the demeanor/skills/excellence that is required to be identified as a "Dive Master".
fisherdvm
Contributor
- Messages
- 3,577
- Reaction score
- 52
- # of dives
- 200 - 499
Aww, cut these folks some slack! If these coldwater creatures can't dive in a real ocean, at least they are diving in a pool with students. If they get paid for diving, more power to them. If you are stupid enough to follow them down to the deep abyss, that's your own fault. At least they are maintaining their enthusiasm in the sport. Eventually, they will be rich enough to accumulate thousands of dives and laugh at the new DM's Padi is churning out.
I'll bet a DM with 60 dives dives better than an OW diver with 60 dives! Which really doesn't say much, does it?
I'll bet a DM with 60 dives dives better than an OW diver with 60 dives! Which really doesn't say much, does it?
The Horn
Contributor
Depends on the diver!
# of dives and certification level is very little indication of a divers ability until you enter technical diving and then the technical divers will frag the crap out of the sloppy techie guys!
I think you need to read the standards that you're talking about. You might be surprised to find that the "level of excellence" that you think is required, really isn't required at all.
Absolutely. All one must show is "demonstration quality skills," which in the PADI DM program means slow, exaggerated, and appearing to be easy while kneeling on the bottom of a pool.
I think the quality of a dive master (regardless of how long they have been diving, logged dives, etc) is really very dependent on the quality of their instructor during DM training and other advanced training. I have been diving for just shy of two years and in October attended a dive school in Florida for DM training. I went into the training an AOW diver w/ Enriched Air and about 85 dives.
We started with Emergency First Responder then did DAN DES and Neuro Admin training moving up to Rescue Diver and onto DM. All my instructors were excellent and after my rescue course I felt like my diving and awareness of various situations improved 10-fold. Our rescue instructor did a wonderful job and didn't make the course "easy" like I have heard that some instructors do.
When I got to the DM portion of my training I found the instructor for that portion was a stickler in every respect. She didn't make the training easy at all and expected the best out of each student: which in my opinion is how every instructor should be but not all are. One woman in the course fell doing a giant stride in 4' seas and broke two ribs having to drop out, another guy just didn't finish and I think out of the whole DM course myself and one other were the only ones who finished.
I think it's important at the DM level that the training is tough and that the students show better then average skills in every regard: also in attitude and ability to assess situations and make good judgment. I feel that during my DM training we had to do all of this but I also feel that not everyone has that approach and some instructors just push people through the course to get them done and a shiny new black DM card in their hand.
I always thought DM training was to seperate those who wanted to be dive instructors at some point: ( or dive professionals in some regard ) from those who did not. I did my DM training not because I wanted to be a DM but because my goal is to become an instructor and live at least in some aspect the life of a dive professional.
I am the first to say that my underwater skills could be better. My buoyancy is good and my air consumption is far better then most although my kick style and gracefulness needs work. I do feel though that I am better then many at working with people, teaching and explaining dive theory and essential practices and assessing situations and monitoring diver safety. Luckily underwater skill is mostly picked up through expierence where the latter is something that someone is naturally gifted with.
We started with Emergency First Responder then did DAN DES and Neuro Admin training moving up to Rescue Diver and onto DM. All my instructors were excellent and after my rescue course I felt like my diving and awareness of various situations improved 10-fold. Our rescue instructor did a wonderful job and didn't make the course "easy" like I have heard that some instructors do.
When I got to the DM portion of my training I found the instructor for that portion was a stickler in every respect. She didn't make the training easy at all and expected the best out of each student: which in my opinion is how every instructor should be but not all are. One woman in the course fell doing a giant stride in 4' seas and broke two ribs having to drop out, another guy just didn't finish and I think out of the whole DM course myself and one other were the only ones who finished.
I think it's important at the DM level that the training is tough and that the students show better then average skills in every regard: also in attitude and ability to assess situations and make good judgment. I feel that during my DM training we had to do all of this but I also feel that not everyone has that approach and some instructors just push people through the course to get them done and a shiny new black DM card in their hand.
I always thought DM training was to seperate those who wanted to be dive instructors at some point: ( or dive professionals in some regard ) from those who did not. I did my DM training not because I wanted to be a DM but because my goal is to become an instructor and live at least in some aspect the life of a dive professional.
I am the first to say that my underwater skills could be better. My buoyancy is good and my air consumption is far better then most although my kick style and gracefulness needs work. I do feel though that I am better then many at working with people, teaching and explaining dive theory and essential practices and assessing situations and monitoring diver safety. Luckily underwater skill is mostly picked up through expierence where the latter is something that someone is naturally gifted with.
I'm not trying to slam you at all but isn't diving mostly just moving yourself around the water column? What sense does it make to have DM's that aren't just flat out slick at doing so...including finning technique? I don't think divers should be OW certified without being darned good at it and I think a DM should be the picture of perfection. Those things are diving.
If there is any truth to that it's only because they are left to teach themselves. On the rare occasion that it's taught up front, divers learn it up front.
I wasn't very good when I became a DM either but I didn't know what "good" was yet and had never seen it or been required to demonstrate it.
- Messages
- 1,938
- Reaction score
- 168
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
I simply find the expectation that DM's should be great divers to be confusing.
Do we expect student teachers to be great teachers (or great students for that matter?) or do we expect them to be dedicated to providing quality instruction and to constantly improving their own skills?
Do we expect student teachers to be great teachers (or great students for that matter?) or do we expect them to be dedicated to providing quality instruction and to constantly improving their own skills?
Hemlon
Contributor
I think some divers just feel the need to keep climbing the instructional ladder. For some, I'm sure that it's a legitimate desire to improve their skills and knowledge base.
For others, I think they gain esteem warm fuzzies from it. A couple of the ones I have met are rather lacking in the other aspects of their lives. They are not very educated so maybe DM training is their way of compensating.
Heck, I even read a profile of someone here on SB who brags about only having been certified a couple of years ago. This person then goes into great detail of the courses taken including dive con. Sometimes people would do so much better by just diving.
Not everything has to be a quest.
(Disclaimer: One of the best divers I have met is a DM and I only learned this after I had known him for several months. It's the divers who wear their DM status like a freaking forehead tattoo that always make me wonder how in the world they made it through DM training.)
For others, I think they gain esteem warm fuzzies from it. A couple of the ones I have met are rather lacking in the other aspects of their lives. They are not very educated so maybe DM training is their way of compensating.
Heck, I even read a profile of someone here on SB who brags about only having been certified a couple of years ago. This person then goes into great detail of the courses taken including dive con. Sometimes people would do so much better by just diving.
Not everything has to be a quest.
(Disclaimer: One of the best divers I have met is a DM and I only learned this after I had known him for several months. It's the divers who wear their DM status like a freaking forehead tattoo that always make me wonder how in the world they made it through DM training.)
Similar threads
