Why isnt there Any Money for Divemasters

[thien]

MrStein,

Being a resident Dive Professional in Thailand, here's an advice.

any dive schools who claim to place you in a fast job guarantee are selling you out to be a "Scuba Slave." You will most like work like mad for a few free dives, 10-12 hours per day, and illegally as no dive centers is going to pay and get you a legal work permit.

Finding a DM job is not much different to you finding a job for your normal profession. Anyone can be a dive guide! But not everyone can relate well to customers, selling well on the retail floor, service equipments, understand the industry, reliable, committed and able to lead different dive conditions and challenges every day.

But, there are DM who makes a great living in Thailand as boat managers, dive center assistant, and even freelance from shop to shop. They make the commitment to become a professional and search out the right dive centers for them, not just grabbing any place that offer work. And then there are those who just come into the country, work illegally for a few months to exchange for room and board, party a lot, then take off.

I fully agree with Diver0001, "you will get out of DMing depends a lot on what you put into it."

 

[TwoBitTxn]

As a dive master I make 1/4 of what the instructors make per student. Generally, each class is allowed one free DM admission to all of our scuba parks.

There are very few instructors who can make a living teaching.

I do it because I love it.

TwoBit

 

[novadiver]

It's greed, plain and simple, The shop takes a cut, the instuctor takes a cut, the insurance industry takes a cut , and if someone dies , the DM gets the law suit BECAUSE it's the DMs fault.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

 

[AZ_Zoner]

It could also be that the 1st time consumer is looking for the cheapest cert. This causes competition between dive shops to lower their prices on training. Even Instructors don’t make that much for the time and effort put into the training of students. Most dive shops try to make up their training losses or breaking even point in the sales department.

I know of some areas where the dive shops agree on prices for training and it does increase the amount that the trainers receive. But all it takes is one shop to lower the OW cert price and competition takes over.

People now days want some form of instant gratification at a cheap price. If scuba isn’t cheap, and quick, they’ll go buy a mountain bike or a set of golf clubs. They just want to be able to go to Cancun and have something to do before they start hitting the cocktails. And I guess there is nothing wrong with that as long as they know their limits while diving.

There are the other divers or soon to be divers who will pay for good instructions. And I bet if your on SB you most likely one of the divers who understands the importance of good instruction, no mater what the cost. You have taken the time to investigate your options and are trying to become a better diver.

So what I guess I’m trying to say is that the larger consumer group of party divers have driven the training class price down to where DM’s make nothing but a few perks, and Instructors probably don’t make minimum wage.

CB

 

[Mako Mark]

Not always. I choose to be a DM instead of an instructor because it puts me in a better position to work on the things with students that I find important, such as buoyancy control, buddy contact and swimming technique. R..

Diver0001, that is just a crock.. Get off your arse and take the IDC, you will be a great instructor and you know it. Imagine how much more you could do if you can teach the whole class yourself rather than fixing some other instructors mistakes...

It's greed, plain and simple, The shop takes a cut, the instuctor takes a cut, the insurance industry takes a cut , and if someone dies , the DM gets the law suit BECAUSE it's the DMs fault.

This is a crock too. Nobody is going to sue a pennyless Divemaster, what are you going to get except an expensive lawyers bill?

Novadover, the profit margins in scuba diving are so low, that there is nothing to get greedy about dude. If there is somone out there that is greedy and looking for a business that will make them lots of money, the certainly wouldnt pick diving unless they have absolutely NO business sense.

 

[Diver0001]

Diver0001, that is just a crock.. Get off your arse and take the IDC, you will be a great instructor and you know it.

Wow. I don't know whether to feel more surprised, shocked or flattered by this.

Imagine how much more you could do if you can teach the whole class yourself rather than fixing some other instructors mistakes...

The thought has crossed my mind......

.....but while I'm at it I'll come to bat for the instructors I work with. The way we run things I really do spend more time on the three things I mentioned because that's the division of labour we've found that works for us. In *most* cases it's a matter of choice to delegate certain things to the CA's. It makes the best use of everyone's qualities. In the cases of supporting instructors with "new instructor syndrome" there may be an element of fixing mistakes but I prefer to see it as coaching and although it's a bit of a roll reversal I don't see anything really wrong with an experienced DM coaching a new instructor in how to run a good class.....

R..

 

[diverbrian]

Not always. I choose to be a DM instead of an instructor because it puts me in a better position to work on the things with students that I find important, such as buoyancy control, buddy contact and swimming technique.

Instructors are accountable for these things but where I assist the instructors are busy teaching the skills and evaluating the skills and the DM's (CA´s) have better chances for drilling skills to proficiency. And not being accountable doesn't make me (personally) feel any less responsible for the result.

Because of my roll I'm also handed off some of the difficult cases who don't learn well and need extra help. I particularly enjoy that. Last year, for example, I helped a student with really bad swimming technique. His own instructor didn't have the time to sort it out and an hour of remedial teaching with another instructor failed to produce a result. I joined the class and I was lucky enough to see what worked for him and he came out of OW looking good. That´s what I do it for.

I don't feel as if I'm just warming up for anything. In fact I even helped to train at least one of the instructors I now work for. I assisted with his Rescue course and may have assisted with his AOW too but I can't remember anymore. It's just a matter of time before someone I had in OW becomes an instructor and I'll get to help them again with overcoming their "new instructor syndrome". I'm getting pretty good at that too....

Personally I think I'm good enough at this to become an instructor but I don't feel that would be a move for the better right now. I really enjoy teaching/assisting but I also enjoy the more advanced diving too and from what I've seen many instructors get sucked into teaching too much and diving too little and that would make me very unhappy. Maybe if I were working in a resort environment I think I'd need to become an instructor because they have a very different way of working (namely, very rushed) and a DM is too limited in his/her options to be of much use.

All of this is to say that what you will get out of DMing depends a lot on what you put into it.

R..

Unfortunately, I see where this is coming from. I observe myself and find that I as a DiveCon (whose only real pay is equipment discounts if the shop can afford it), I get to do more of "my own" diving as I am not always expected to work with a class when I go diving.

The two divecons that I saw pushed ahead to instructors seem to be forced into into performing as "company men" moreso than myself, by virtue of the fact that they have to pay higher renewal fees and insurance than I do and thus HAVE to work to break even on the deal. (Both have great day jobs, but you catch what I mean.)

At this point, I am just as happy to play a role on the edge of things and do things my own way. I am also trusted more when I help people off the books as I am not seen as one of the people pushing gear (as the instructors tend to be seen).

The catch, I really don't get paid much if at all. But, in the end, I think that our instructors are more like traditional "dive slaves" than the certified assistants. When you figure the increased insurance and renewal fees, they aren't making that much. You see why most of the instructors up north have good night jobs!

 

[diverbrian]

.....but while I'm at it I'll come to bat for the instructors I work with. The way we run things I really do spend more time on the three things I mentioned because that's the division of labour we've found that works for us. In *most* cases it's a matter of choice to delegate certain things to the CA's. It makes the best use of everyone's qualities. In the cases of supporting instructors with "new instructor syndrome" there may be an element of fixing mistakes but I prefer to see it as coaching and although it's a bit of a roll reversal I don't see anything really wrong with an experienced DM coaching a new instructor in how to run a good class.....

R..

No different than the military concept of every good new officer relies on a great NCO. LOL

 

[novadiver]

Diver0001, that is just a crock.. Get off your arse and take the IDC, you will be a great instructor and you know it. Imagine how much more you could do if you can teach the whole class yourself rather than fixing some other instructors mistakes...




This is a crock too. Nobody is going to sue a pennyless Divemaster, what are you going to get except an expensive lawyers bill?

Novadover, the profit margins in scuba diving are so low, that there is nothing to get greedy about dude. If there is somone out there that is greedy and looking for a business that will make them lots of money, the certainly wouldnt pick diving unless they have absolutely NO business sense.

" profit margins in scuba diving are so low " Lets see = Dive rite molded plastic fins with spring strap , 139.00 MSRP .hmmm made in china . now I'm sure the dirt poor smuck that made them would disagree. The money is going to someone. I wonder who?

 

[diverbrian]

" profit margins in scuba diving are so low " Lets see = Dive rite molded plastic fins with spring strap , 139.00 MSRP .hmmm made in china . now I'm sure the dirt poor smuck that made them would disagree. The money is going to someone. I wonder who?

It isn't winding up in the pockets of the charter operators (who operate on a thin margin), the instructors, or the divemasters. I have heard store owners discuss things and there is a saying in this end of the industry...

"If you want to be a millionaire running a dive shop, start with two million dollars."

Maybe the manufacturers are getting most of it (my bet). That does not cover the people doing the training though.