Wreck penetration and queuing

[kwinter]

I would like a clarification of the original question. Is the OP asking about two boats that arrive at the same wreck site and using the same down line to get to the wreck? Maybe the phrase "into the wreck" was incorrect. Let's assume this has nothing to do with penetration. Plenty of wrecks are large enough for several dive boats to share simultaneously. But each boat would set up its own anchor or down line and tie in. Some large sites have multiple permanent moorings. Other times a second boat will ask permission for a mate to descend on the first boat's line in order to set their own line. But each boat should end up with its own tie in.

Now if the question really was about penetration, then it has nothing to do with the number of boats. It is the number of teams that matter, just like in a cave. You do not EVER enter an overhead environment on another team's line. If they leave first and pull their line, you've got nothing. Each team (and I would limit that to 4 people max) would run a line in. Being able to not only run the line, but also recognize and distinguish yours from other teams is a critical survival skill worth the price of a training course itself.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[Hawkwood]

It is probably instructor specific but I don't believe PADI allows for penetration on an AOW dive with wreck as a specialty. That is dive four on the wreck diver certification and even at that it is optional.

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You are correct, wreck penetration is not permitted during the PADI Wreck Adventure Dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

Each team (and I would limit that to 4 people max) would run a line in.

Personally, I'd say 3 max per team. With 4 divers, you're better with two teams of 2.

There's reasons why, in zero-viz touch-contact, a team of 3 can remain cohesive, wheras a team of 4 could lose someone and not realize.

 

[ballastbelly]

[going on i my understanding of what i read on their website, it appears] these Oz guys offer padi AOW with a submarine penetration dive on day 4, using a reel

 

[scubadiver888]

At popular wrecks, when different dive boats and independents show up to dive it,do strangers just share the same reel/line into the wreck? Is there a sort of right of way , like on the road (maybe who dropped anchor first?)
Thx

First, if you are going to have the wreck ADVENTURE dive as part of your AOW certification understand that the ADVENTURE dive should really just be about why you don't go inside the wreck, how to make sure you don't cut yourself on the wreck. making sure your buoyancy control is good enough to approach the OUTSIDE of a wreck. It has been a while but I'm pretty sure the wreck adventure dive MUST not include wreck penetration. There are PADI SPECIALTY dives which may, at the instructors discretion, include wreck penetration but even then it is possible you will do no or limited wreck penetration. I do remember, for PADI, that even for the specialty you cannot be more than 130' or 40m from the surface. For example, if the wreck is 70' down then 130' - 70' = 60' therefore you should not penetrate more than 60' into the wreck.

That said, if you dive in my area (Lake Ontario or St. Lawrence River) there are a LOT of ship wrecks. They make the wreck adventure dive required to get your AOW. They just want to make sure you have a good set of gloves, you aren't going to cut yourself on some zebra mussels, don't even THINK about going inside a wreck, etc.

Because there are literally hundreds of wrecks in my area, the boat operators known who is going to which wreck and try to ensure each boat is the only boat on the wreck. So who runs a line into the wreck is agreed upon by your group. The boat operators can help and give suggestions. But since you are all together you can run one line and not worry about leaving with someone still using the line. If you have a second boat show up (I've seen private boats tie off our scuba boat) then they would run their own line and not interfere with our line. There are often multiple interesting routes through a wreck. So you tend to run your line on different routes. On one wreck I was on there was only one way in and out. It was very tight and not too many places to turn around. It was agreed on the boat that my buddy and I were going in and everyone else would check out the bridge or swim around the tanker.

When you do get a second boat on a dive site, the second boat will tie off on the first boat. If the first boat goes to leave and the second boat is staying, they walk the line from the second boat to the buoy, tie the second boat off on the buoy and the first boat drifts off. If it was a training or junior group, the boat captain would wave off the second boat. You really don't want two boat on one wreck if there are juniors or trainees in the water.

For the most part, anyone new to the area will rely on the boat captains. They coordinate via radio. They have been doing it for a while and tend to use apprenticeship to train up future boat captains.

 

[Hawkwood]

these Oz guys offer padi AOW with a submarine penetration dive on day 4, using a reel
Advanced Open Water | Scuba Life Learn to Scuba Dive Today

What am I missing? Their AOW class is for 3 days and they state that they "go" to a submarine for the Wreck Dive.

"Course Details:
The PADI Advanced Open Water course is conducted over one full weekend during which you will complete a total of five dives covering skills such as navigation, deep diving, boat diving, search and recovery, night diving, wreck diving, drift diving and buoyancy.
Day 1
This is an evening where your instructor will go through the knowledge reviews you completed at home. You will also pick up your diving gear tonight.
Day 2
Today you will do three shore dives. One of these will be a navigation dive, where you will learn more compass skills as well as natural navigation. You will also do a search and recovery dive, and a night dive.
Day 3
You will do two boat dives today from Portsea. One will be a Deep Dive, where you get to see what it’s like when you go down to 30m. If the conditions are suitable you will also do a wreck dive to a submarine, otherwise a drift dive where you just relax as the current takes you along the dive site."

 

[Tortuga68]

What am I missing?

Nothing. They don't go in the sub. Most times they don't even go there at all.

 

[boulderjohn]

If the course is not a regular course but in the realm of that group of training an instructor is allowed to teach, you can get a card. IE yo can get a dry suit card from an instructor that has never had one on.

If you are talking PADI, that is only true if the instructor lied through his teeth to get the certification in the first place. An instructor who teaches any specialty has to apply for each specialty individually, not in a group. (I don't even know what that means.) When you apply, you have to affirm that you have met the qualifications--chiefly a minimum number of dives in that specialty area--required for that specialty. Yes, you are on your honor for this, but the likelihood of someone lying as badly as you suggest is not great. Also, since the instructor is required to dive with the student in both the pool and the open water for the dry suit certification, it would be hard to be certified by an instructor who has never had one on.

 

[Hawkwood]

Nothing. They don't go in the sub. Most times they don't even go there at all.

That I know thanks, I'm waiting for the OP to point to where he got that impression. After all, that's what he said. I can't find it anywhere on the website.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am talking mostly to PADI and PADI instructors, where PADI instrcutors regularly take AOW students into wrecks on the Wreck Dive Adventure dive with standard recreational gear. Which is just WTF?

There is not supposed to be any penetration on the AOW wreck dive, however...

There has been a small but (IMO) significant nudge in thinking about overhead environments this year. In the past, the general thinking was that no overhead environments were allowed without the appropriate training, most of which is in the world of tech diving. PADI has now accepted a Distinctive Specialty called Understanding Overhead Environments. It is almost entirely an academic session only, with only one optional pool session to introduce non-silting kicks, and no OW dive. The course explains different kinds of overhead environments and details the hidden dangers of the more challenging ones to show why untrained divers should avoid them without appropriate training.

On the other hand, in a very significant change in policy, it also accepts that some overhead environments can be dived safely without such training. It shows why some simple swim throughs and small, prepared wrecks are fine to explore without that training (as is done thousands of times a day throughout the world), and then goes into the characteristics of more complex swim throughs, wrecks, and other environments that require increasingly greater skill and training. The idea of that is to allow the divers to understand that just because they can penetrate most of the swim throughs in Cozumel or the simple wrecks in south Florida without a problem, that does not mean they will be safe in more complex environments.