YAFS (Yet Another Fill Station)

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

First, just put more whips on the Hyperfilter - it has three ports. You can easily attach three final whips and just fill 'em up.

Yes, you should be able to fill a bank with this compressor. It runs VERY cool - head temperatures are in the "quite warm but not blistering" range, even after running an hour or so. While I don't know that I'd call this unit "continuous duty", I bet if you pointed an auxiliary fan at it to keep the temps down a bit more you'd get away with it. It IS low RPM (1200); comparatively to other units of this size class that's not running very hard at all!

But let's think about the bank requirements here a bit, because I think you're in for a rude surprise.

A 400 cuft 4500 psi bank tank would require about 2 hours to fill from bone dry. A 3500 psi HP120 is a bit more than one bank tank can fill from full pressure and reach final if empty (it will end up at 3461 psi), so you've got a MAJOR storage problem doing this - you're going to need a LOT of storage tanks filling HP steels like this. Let's say you have four of those 400 cube tanks in a bank. If you start empty with 10 HP 120s, you've got 1200 cuft of gas volume to add. Doing the math, you're going from 1600 cuft of volume to 2800 cuft; the pressure goes from 4500 to 2571. From there there you'll have to run the compressor to top them off. I don't know that you're saving enough here to be worthwhile; if you attempt to recharge the bank at the same time you've more than doubled the top-off time!

If you were to rig the bank as a cascade, you can do better, but now the plumbing gets more complex.

Why are you filing 10 or 12 tanks a night? This is for three or four guys? If so, you probably want a bigger unit. I'd probably be looking at their W31-2, wich is TWO of these blocks in a cabinet with one motor.

I figure that filling four tanks in an evening is acceptable and this unit will do that in an evening without being significantly burdensome. Beyond six tanks in an evening I'd say its not enough.

An auto condensate drain is doable. This unit has two purges, so you'd need a high pressure pilot valve for the final stage, and the low-pressure one on the moisture separator is then solenoid activated. The idea here is that when the timer fires, the low pressure solenoid valve actuates, which collapses the air supply in the pilot valve and it opens on the high pressure side. The timer would be pretty easy to construct. If you use a normally-open solenoid valve, and connect it into the mag starter, you now have an automatic unloader that operates when the unit shuts down. If I was to do this I'd consider putting in an outboard filter stack and using the existing one as a second-level moisture separator ONLY - the reason for this is that you could then (with check valves) leave the stack pressurized when the unit shuts down, which will save you considerable time if you shut down between tanks when filling - it takes a couple of minutes to recharge the Lawrence Factor filter on my unit before any gas flows!

If you're going to run this unattended you'd need a magnetic starter and final pressure switch, so that it will shut off on its own, and the auto drains. If you're continuous blending unattended then you need MUCH more safety stuff, including a soenoid on the O2 feed so if the power goes off or the compressor shuts down the O2 flow is killed - otherwise you're asking for a nice "boom" if there is a power interruption! There is a packaged version of this unit with two of these compressor blocks run off one motor, in a cabinet, that has all this already in it - its more expensive, but might be a beter choice, as it also has twice the output. The only issue would be figuring out the power - don't know if its available in a single-phase drive or not - and integrating a continuous blending system if you intend to use one.

That would give you 7 cfm, which would fill 10 tanks in about two and a half hours of runtime, assuming they're not completely empty when you start. That's tolerable, and with the volume you're talking about I'd go that way.
 
Well, to make it work, I would need to fill more than my own tanks. I think I would probably go with the bigger compressor, and have the ability to fill 10-12 tanks in an evening without sweating it. I think banks are definetely the way to go, even if I have to top off with the compressor. Their is a group of us that typically dives four-120's in a day spearfishing. 3-4 guys at 4 tanks each gives me 12-16 tanks. Some of those guys won't have me fill them, I am sure, but most would.
 
I started out filling streight off the compressor but that gets to be a pain. It's too slow and your always turning the compressor on and off which I don't think is good. If you start with three or four tanks in a cascade it gives a good number of fills without running the compressor and it isn't a big deal to add bank tanks as you go.

In the picture it looks like the only filter you have is the hyper filter, is that the case? I have 2 filters prior to the hyper filter and my air tests within modified grade E without the hyper filter. The Hfilter is just added insurance. After a while you will definately want an auto dump system.

Except for a little wasted gas (more critical with He) I am happy with PP blending. I keep between 4 and 6 O2 tanks on hand so I usually have sufficient gas to do top ups and get close to a 2000 psi fill of 100% on an al80. I use them in a cascade and get them pretty empty before turning them in. I have some of the tanks on a lease so I can keep a minimum amount on hand without paying extra rent if I don't use it right away. When I need a bunch of gas to mix for a trip I rent a couple extra and use it up right away so I can turn the tanks in. With only one O2 tank you'll be dumping gas.
 
The first one is on the right side of the compressor, and delivers Grade E air to the whip. The smaller canister on the left side of the block is the moisture separator and is between the 2nd and 3rd stage. The canister on the right of the compressor (mounted to it) is the standard purification system for Grade E air.

The stand-alone unit on the right is the hyperfilter stack.

The compressor filter is rated for 4000 cubic feet at 30C (more at lower temperatures, etc)

The HF is rated for 7,000 cubic feet.

I will almost certainly end up getting at least one more O2 tank for a cascade; picking up a second one is a trivial matter of just driving over there. Much depends on how much I end up with in my tanks when I come back in - right now its usually 400 psi or so, which makes dumping them as the supply tank gets lower not all that big of a deal.

However, with the HP tanks, I may change my mind and fast - so when they arrive in a few weeks I'll likely have at least two supply tanks so I can more fully utilize the gas in them....

This unit is slow enough and the LF stack has enough air volume in it that I can switch tanks without shutting down the compressor; I can close the first (full) tank valve @ 3000 psi and have a couple minutes before I reach pop-off pressure on the final stage. This is more than enough time to take the fill yoke off the first tank, put it on the next, and open the line valve, then the tank valve (slowly!) without turning off the unit or losing pressure in the system. There is an amazing volume of gas in that Lawrence Factor unit; it takes quite a while to bleed down when you're done using it for the day. From a cold start its about 30 seconds or so to pressurize the compressor's filter stack to where the priority valve opens, and then another 2-3 minutes before the hyperfilter's priority valve opening pressure is reached at ~2000 psi or thereabouts. From 3500 psi (final pressure on HP tanks) I have more than a minute before I hit the 4600 psi relief pop-off pressure on the third stage to make the switch and open up the line valve on the new tank.

Avoiding a lot of start-ups and shutdowns is likely a good idea, particularly with compressors where the final stage is a "floating" piston design (which most are), as when the unit is depressurized that floating piston is not sync'd and you are going to get a bit of knocking and wear during the start-up cycle. Plus, the lube is all in the sump instead of lubricating where it belongs.

If I do install a bank then I'll definitely need to add auto drains and the switchgear to handle pressure monitoring and such.
 
Genesis once bubbled...
This unit is slow enough and the LF stack has enough air volume in it that I can switch tanks without shutting down the compressor; I can close the first (full) tank valve @ 3000 psi and have a couple minutes before I reach pop-off pressure on the final stage.

Does your compressor manufacturer say you should avoid the pop-off pressure?

The recommended Bauer procedure is to let the valve pop-off, do an interstage and condensation drain, then start filling.
 
They in fact state that if you don't have a final pressure shutdown switch, and the pop-off is set at or below bottle pressure, run until it pops off.

I have the higher-pressure pop-offs in my unit (~4650 psi; max working pressure is 4500) and everything else in the system (hoses, hyperfilter stack, etc) is rated for either 5000 or 6000.

Do you have a priority valve in your unit to keep the filter stack pressurized? I added one, as it wasn't part of the original configuration and the filters are not very effective without significant pressure applied.
 
Genesis once bubbled...
Do you have a priority valve in your unit to keep the filter stack pressurized? I added one, as it wasn't part of the original configuration and the filters are not very effective without significant pressure applied.
On the Bauer it's called a Pressure Maintaining Valve. It is. . .
Mounted at the outlet of the P0 Filter System. It ensures that pressure is built up in the filter even from the start of delivery, thus achieving constant optimum filtration. It also guarantees proper working conditions for the final stage cylinder. The Pressure Maintaining Valve is adjusted to 2,000 psi (138 bar)
 

Back
Top Bottom