Liabilty insurance vs LDS

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Paladin

Contributor
Messages
2,342
Reaction score
521
Location
West Virginia
# of dives
500 - 999
Today, I drove to the only dive shop close to my home to buy some silicone grease for my regulators. When I got there, the LDS owner informed me that he no longer carries silicone grease and uses only Christo-Lube. I asked him why and he said it is because of his liability insurance. His insurance company claims that, since he serves Nitrox divers as well as plain old air divers like me, having silicone grease in the shop creates a situation where a tech might accidentally use the wrong lube in a Nitrox regulator. So, in order to keep his insurance cost down, he uses only Christo-Lube for everybody.

Further, in order to be able to afford liability insurance for his business, he no longer rents any equipment of any kind to anybody. He cannot even supply gear for the students he trains. Instead, he includes a complete, basic package in the price of his classes. Unfortunately, he says, this cuts way down on the number of potential students who sign up for OW class. Instead, he is pretty much limited to teaching advance classes to those who already have their own gear. He cannot even rent tanks or other equipment to certified divers. To do so would triple his insurance premiums.

He asked me why I was looking for silicone grease and I told him it was so I can clean and lube my regulators. He asked me what kind of regs I have and I told him I have two Aqua Lung Aquarius and one Aqua Lung Conshelf XI. I expected him to argue that I should not be servicing my own regulators be he just nodded. He then told me that he could not service those regulators because of, yeah, you guessed it, liability insurance. He cannot get the "official" parts for those regulators from Aqua Lung and, even though parts from other regulators can be substituted, as in the case of the Conshelf, the liability issue prevents his doing so. If, he says, he were to service an obsolete regulator using parts not specifically tagged for that regulator, then the owner has an accident (even if the accident had nothing to do with the regulator), if it were to get out that he (the LDS owner) had serviced the regulator with "non official" parts, it would open him up for a nasty lawsuit. As a result, he will service only equipment that is currently being supported by the manufacturers of that equipment. So, he does not criticize those of us who choose to service our vintage equipment ourselves. In fact, he believes the policies of the SCUBA manufacturers and the insurance industry are practically forcing divers to consider this option. Most of the cost of regulator service goes toward liability insurance, which helps to explain the $100+ service charges discussed on another thread.

He then asked me where I was getting the parts for my regs and I told him about VDH. He wrote down the info to pass on to the numerous other divers who come into his shop with old Aqua Lung regulators needing service.

We then discussed the heavy reliance on equipment (BCDs, computers, alternate air, etc.) during dive training and the absence of teaching the old ways such as buddy breathing, emergency ascents and the like. He, personally, would prefer to teach diving in the old style with instruction on the new equipment added as good measure. However, his insurance provider dictates that he cannot teach the old skills because of the chance that a student might panic during a buddy breathing or emergency ascent exercise or get the bends from misreading a dive table.

He ended our conversation lamenting the sad fact that the insurance industry is limiting his ability to do business in a way that would be fair and economical to his customers.

So, guys, next time you go into your LDS and you think the prices are too high or the service is a bit limited, you can thank the insurance industry for at least part of it.:shakehead:
 
a.) Having a bad day.

b.) Finacially strapped and trying to go with no/low insurance coverage.

c.) Being an over reacting worrywart.

d.) Adding to the hysteria surrounding liability issues.

Whatever the case may be I would say it's time for him to get out of the dive industry. I wouldn't feel too comfortable relying on someone completely paralysed by the risk of risk in a somewhat risky pastime/sport.
 
He's not flying under the liability radar if he has an air compressor and is doing fills for classes or customers without shop insurance. From your description, it sounds like he only has professional liability insurance.

BTW - depending on total sales, dive shop insurance can be had for as little as $650.
 
He does have liability insurance; his problem is the cost. To be able to rent out equipment would cost him an extra $1000.00 on his premiums. To service obsolete equipment would add more insurance costs and might even carry the risk of having his policy canceled. The point is, the insurance company dictates what he can or cannot do in the conducting of his business. If he does not toe the line, he is threatened with ridiculously high premiums or cancellation.
 
Sounds like he needs to shop around for a better insurance provider.
 
It really isn't that uncommon for insurance companies in my state to dictate to policy holders. Several years ago, there was a landowner in the next county north of me who was in the habit of allowing hunters to use his property (150+ acres of woodland) to control the whitetail deer population and protect his crops. When it came time to renew the insurance policy on his property, the insurance company told him to post his property and ban hunters from his land. When he refused, stating that it was his right to use his own land however he saw fit, they canceled his policy and would not renew it.
 
I can identify with this shop owner as I have friends in business in the States with comparable problems. Seems to me that you Americans have created a monster. Thank God we don't have any of this nonsense here in Belize, and very little of it in the UK - although there it's definitely getting worse.
 
Don't leave your stuff there. He'll be out of business soon.

Terry

Today, I drove to the only dive shop close to my home to buy some silicone grease for my regulators. When I got there, the LDS owner informed me that he no longer carries silicone grease and uses only Christo-Lube. I asked him why and he said it is because of his liability insurance.
 
Unfortunately, liability insurance is a bit pricey. It depends on what you teach, sell, rent, service as well as how many staff, instructors etc. For our medium sized shop, we pay about 18000 a year to cover everything and were about average when we talk to other owners who do similar work and are the same size.

As far as the silicone grease issue, that was a recommendation made to certified regulator repairmen about two years ago. Some insurance companies made it their "regulation" to reduce their risk. We only have christolube (about 50 bucks for 2oz.)in shop repair area now too for same reason. But we sell silicon grease. If that makes sense?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom