Small Double's Kit

I wanted to post this in a more active area on SB!
I want to create this setup for 50' & under shore diving in S. Florida.
Any suggestions would be GREAT!






Hello all,


I have decided to again start doing some shore dives from the coast of S. Florida.
(soon) I have been reading allot of threads about pony's, Spare Air, sling mounts, ect ect. I think what i want to do is build me a ultralight, easy to handle, double's, shore diving rig. I couldn't think of a better place then here, to help me (and others) configure the ultimate diving, shore rig. My self imposed limits on this rig will be 50ft depth max. I will also be doing some solo shore diving with this rig. So when we talk about this kit, lets please keep in mind those restrictions, no need to spend hours talking about diving it solo to 100ft ect ect.
I'm looking for something ultra light, twin tanks, BP/W, Ultra streamline, and minimalist.
I have a good friend that works on water jets, and cnc. He will fabricate some of the metal items needed for this kit.

So lets get started, on helping me build the safest (as we can) ultra light, solo-boat diving, kit ever made!

Here is what im thinking so far.

Duel 45 +/- tanks steel, light as i can buy them.
carbon fiber tank rings (made by me) pre preg
Harness with one clip on shoulder (easy to get out of, remember 50ft max)
tanks run separate of each other, first tank will only be run down to 500psi MAX, then to be used
for redundancy, if problem with 2nd tank after switch over.
Sealed 1st stage's
The best anti free flow type 2nds we can use. (not as prone to free flow)
Im thinking mk17-250v's


So lets talk about hose routing
1st stage mounting
what tanks to use, for most benefit, safety, Proper trim.
What type of weight system should be used
Any ideas that you feel would improve this kit, and make it the best rig ever assembled
for the task of fairly shallow shore diving solo.
As safe as we can design it.



I hope everything remains civil, and people enjoy this thread, with as little flaming,
as possible. This item is of great interest to me.


Thanks.

Here is what i got so far........

Pre Preg carbon fiber back plate. Or Steel????
Carbon fiber duel tank rings/mounting to back plate
All 'pluming' in Titanium or ultra light Aluminum. Or brass?????
Ti bolts
HP steel tanks (trying to get around 90 with two on a good fill) Light as can be found
Under 45# ready to dive (i edited this, had 30lbs, that was not possible, after looking at tank weights)

Looking for suggestions from people who know, about different metals in sea water.


Question: Would it be possible with compact tanks to run them on your back upside down, so the valves
where easy to reach, right off your hips?

ADDED: I think i found a good tank for doubles. Tell me what you think.....

OMS 45
LP 2640 +
23"
5.5" Dia.
18lbs each.
-2,72 full
+.57 empty

I know some folks that use dual steel 40's on a back plate for shallow (under 60 ft) diving that they want to still have the redundancy of doubles but not the bulk. (or they don't want to change their configuration).

give that a try.

mike_s:

I know some folks that use dual steel 40's on a back plate for shallow (under 60 ft) diving that they want to still have the redundancy of doubles but not the bulk. (or they don't want to change their configuration).

give that a try.

Click to expand...

Yes what im thinking also, the OMS 45's seem perfect for me unless someone has a better tank to use. thanks

I have a set of double aluminum 40s with Sherwood dual manifold but frankly, for shore diving in warm water I prefer an actual minimalist rig:

Steel 72
Voit 50 Fathom
Plastic Voit Snug Pack
Jet Fins
Any quality mask with snorkel
Tow flag/float
depth gauge/watch/compass
knife
sausage, signal mirror, whistle

Notice there is no BC, no ocotpus, no redundancy, no dual regulators because this is a minimalist rig for streamlined diving and low carry weight for beach diving.

N

Nemrod:

I have a set of double aluminum 40s with Sherwood dual manifold but frankly, for shore diving in warm water I prefer an actual minimalist rig:

Steel 72
Voit 50 Fathom
Plastic Voit Snug Pack
Jet Fins
Any quality mask with snorkel
Tow flag/float
depth gauge/watch/compass
knife
sausage, signal mirror, whistle

Notice there is no BC, no ocotpus, no redundancy, no dual regulators because this is a minimalist rig for streamlined diving and low carry weight for beach diving.

N

Click to expand...

Hey Bud, why don't you go get a dive or two under your belt, and get a padi card before you come around here trying to give advice on scuba rigs!
""Logged Dives: None - Not Certified""


Interesting choice of rig though, thanks for the suggestions.
Im thinking pound for pound, this rig will be equal to the weight of your set. I found some
40 alumin. tanks @ 15.lbs ech 3000 psi. 5.25 dia. And then there is the OMS steels.
With the carbon backplate, tank rings, and ultra light manifolds, im shooting for under 40# total.
Im also thinking hard about bitting the bullet, and adding some weight for comfort out of the soup with
a Poseidon. Besea. I know im adding floatent so to speak with this BC, and not a streamlined as a plain old back plate wing,
BUT i bet that half mile or so hike up the coast back home would be very plush with that BC!
Im willing to add a little more in weight/drag ect ect....for the backpack type fit this bc offers.
still think i can get in under 40 lbs, with a carbon backplate added to bc. and the rings in carbon also.
Would make for one trick looking setup!

Where to start......


Two important questions, what are you typically wearing in terms of wet/drysuit? What's your typical water tempterature?

I would hazard a guess that south florida is not cold water. So I wouldn't obsess about enviro sealed regs. MK17s route "ok" on twin tanks, but not perfet. I use MK17s because I regularly dive in water that is below 10 degC. MK25s actually route brilliantly on twin tanks. If you really want sealed, looked at Apeks DST first stages - you can get kits that convert the turret to give you an extra LP port on the endcap that gives you as good routing as MK25s.

With your setup, you have to think about how light it will be when near empty. If you make everything ultralightweight, you'll probably just end up with extra lead on your weightbelt.

Inverting tanks. Just NO. If you want to have the advantages of twin tanks then learn to use them properly. If you go the inversion route, you'll be spending huge amounts of cash on custom length hoses for a start.

Over the years, I've tried many different configurations. Somehow, despite desperately trying to avoid it.... I've ended up with a textbook DIR configuration. It works,simple as that. Find a GUE or UTD instructor in your area and sign up for a Fundamentals or Essentials class - you'll save yourself a whole load of time and money in terms of finding out what works, as opposed to what nearly works or just plain doesn't work at all.

I've got two sets of twin tanks set up, Faber 12L (95 cu ft?) and a set of Fabor 10s (72 cu ft?). The 10s are great for shore diving and so on - but quite frankly, if you're talking 50' dives I really wouldn't bother. Just get a good dive buddy and pracitce your skills, particularly situational awareness and dive planning. There's no real need to complicate it.

Scubabill:

I wanted to post this in a more active area on SB!
I want to create this setup for 50' & under shore diving in S. Florida.
Any suggestions would be GREAT!

Click to expand...

I think you're overly complicating it. Why don't you just wear a normal AL-80 with a jacket and sling a pony bottle for bailout in case of a regulator failure?

R..

Scubabill:

Hey Bud, why don't you go get a dive or two under your belt, and get a padi card before you come around here trying to give advice on scuba rigs!
""Logged Dives: None - Not Certified"

Click to expand...

Nemrod has been diving longer than most board members have been alive and more dives than God and is one of the board regulars. I'd take what he says pretty seriously.

Saving weight with things like carbon fiber bands sounds great, but puts a lot of time and expense into weight savings where you ultimately mauy need to add more lead or us an SS plate anyway. Strenght is important in bands but so is rigidity. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel on a pound for pound basis but you end up needing a lot more to get the same degree of rigidity in many applications and the primary function of tank bands is to keep the tanks aligned and immobile realtive to each other and the manifold.

SS bands are currently made for double 5.5" diameter tanks and standard width manifolds so I'd start there and then once you dive it get exotic with other materials if you are in some way not happy with the basic configuration. A less than perfect se of bands could result in a bent manifold and a leak, so go carefully if considering making your own.

------

+1 on keeping it simple. Just sling a pony with a single, or if you want light and low profile doubles, go with double LP 45's in a basic hogarthian/DIR rig.

Mk 17 G250V's are a good choice, just route the hoses straight down. I place the rubber "tops" of the regs inboard to maximize access to the valves and then route 2 or 3 hoses of one side of the reg. The right post will have the 7' long hose primary off the outboard LP port and the wing inflator hose off the inboard LP port crossing over to the inflator on the left. The left post will have the backup reg routed off the in board port and the dry suit inflator (if any) routed off the outboard port. The SPG is also routed straight down from the left reg.

Scubabill:

Here is what i got so far........

Pre Preg carbon fiber back plate. Or Steel????
Carbon fiber duel tank rings/mounting to back plate
All 'pluming' in Titanium or ultra light Aluminum. Or brass?????
Ti bolts
HP steel tanks (trying to get around 90 with two on a good fill) Light as can be found
Under 45# ready to dive (i edited this, had 30lbs, that was not possible, after looking at tank weights)

Looking for suggestions from people who know, about different metals in sea water.


Question: Would it be possible with compact tanks to run them on your back upside down, so the valves
where easy to reach, right off your hips?

ADDED: I think i found a good tank for doubles. Tell me what you think.....

OMS 45
LP 2640 +
23"
5.5" Dia.
18lbs each.
-2,72 full
+.57 empty

Click to expand...

...run the tanks 'upside down' ??? ...are you SURE this is a good idea ? ....how many other divers have you EVER seen....in real life...on TV...ect. doing that ? ...when you're gearing up, how will you get your tanks to 'self levitate' so you can strap them on/take them off without resting/crushing the regs/hoses ? (unless you're planning to use those goofy SS ring-stands that you mount to where the tank valves join the tanks ?)