Bone To Pick with PADI Dry Suit Cert.

I finally got my drysuit and got a very seasoned instructor to do my cert. We did it all by the book and I am not certified to dive dry suits by PADI.

The problem is that I recently did some ocean dives on a live a board towards my AOW. I had a different instructor, also PADI, along with several other PADI instructors and very long term dry suit divers on the trip. Most of our dives were less than 20 feet. Using the dry suit for buoyancy, as REQUIRED by PADI, led to nearly failing my Buoyancy dive. Once I got back on the boat I asked each of the other instructors and the long term divers what they did....nobody used the suit for buoyancy. They all said they taught the PADI way but then advised their students to only eliminate suit squeeze with gas and use the BC or wing for buoyancy.

It really pisses me off to be told this by a different set of instructors and to be told that PADI is creating more problems than they are solving for dry suit divers. PADI, and any other agencies that teach only dry suit buoyancy need to re-evaluate what they teach or also teach the "better" way by using the BC/wing for basic buoyancy control. I feel like I wasted several dives fighting like crazy to get some type of control during these dives. It should be noted my drysuit class was done mostly in deeper water so the bubble I had to control was smaller which was much easier at depth. Shallow water is a major issue with a dry suit bubble if that is the only buoyancy device you are using.

I personally prefer using the wing/BC for buoyancy, and just keeping enough air in the suit to eliminate squeeze. But, there are plenty of divers who use the suit for buoyancy as well, and have success with it.

What really matters is to use the method you prefer and feel comfortable with

As far as PADI is concerned...well, I was taught many things throughout my life that I don't agree with

I do primarilly use my suit for bouyancy without any fuzz..
Then again, what I need to offset the squeeze is the same or close to the same as I need for bouyancy..

SteveR1952:

We did it all by the book and I am not certified to dive dry suits by PADI.

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What, exactly, do you mean by that?

Do you mean that your instructor decided not to issue you a certification based on how you did during the dives or that he issued you a cert but that PADI is withholding the card? The latter I would find hard to imagine unless your instructor was, for some reason, not authorized to issue the cert.

As for your struggles with the suit, just on the surface of it, I would say try dividing your air up between the BCD and the suit and see if that helps. Don't forget that you have to vent the suit *and* the BCD on the way back up. Also, do a thorough buoyancy check because if you have a huge bubble in your suit then you may be carrying too much weight.

As for the discussion about where to put the air, there are certainly advantages to splitting it between the suit and the BCD and your instructor should probably have discussed that with you. On balance I think everyone just has to do what feels best to them.

R..

IMO PADI is useless. The second instructors you talked with gave you the real deal. Why they stay with PADI is curious. Why would someone teach something and then later tell the students never mind do it the way I do? Seems to me they should be looking for a org. that advocates education they believe and practice? Is PADI that powerful? Seems a shame if it is.

OK. This is what PADI really thinks:

1) for one thing, it is not a *requirement* to trim using the suit. There is no -- repeat -- NO requirement to use only the suit for buoyancy control under water. Every PADI instructor is free to teach the student to do what makes the student most comfortable and gives them the best control.

2) Using the suit for buoyancy control is *recommended* but only for trilaminate suits because if you have the right amount of weight you won't get a big bubble in the suit. They spend a lot of time in the standards talking about doing a proper buoyancy check, which, if you do, will solve most, if not all, problems with having too large of a bubble in a trilaminate suit.

3) PADI does *not* recommend trimming exclusively with the suit for neoprene suits. For neoprene suits they recommend splitting it between the suit and the BCD because with a neoprene suit the bubble can get too big.

4) The instructor can choose to teach the student whatever it takes to make the student comfortable, give them proper skills for using the suit and maximizing their control of the suit. This myth about that PADI demands using only the suit to trim with just isn't true.

5) The choice, in this case, to refrain from discussing the pro's and con's of using the suit exclusively or splitting it up (and trying both ways) fell to the instructor and evidently the instructor decided to tell this student to only use the suit. I don't know why but PADI most certainly didn't make the instructor do that.

R..

I have a PADI dry suit cert and the instructor taught us to try and/or use both ways. I use the BC but I can and have used the suit as well. The difference is small when properly weighted anyway.

Thye only suggest that to try to make it easier on a newer diver so that they don't have to juggle both BC and dry suit. It's really a non-issue.

The reasoning behind it is that they feel that it is too much task loading for some divers. Especially new ones to control two buoyancy sources. And I have to say I agree. If you are not taught proper buoyancy control in Ow class and tested on task loading exercises then it may be. Of course if that is the case you have no business in OW anyway. Using two sources of possible control is NOT too much task loading for the diver of average intelligence who has been properly taught in the first place. Problem is many students never hear of real buoyancy control and trim until much later. They get screwed in this area. Hence the fighting for control, swimming vertically, and not knowing how to properly weight themselves in the first place. All things that should be covered in OW class. When discussing drysuits in OW class I tell them how most divers use the bc for buoyancy and suit for squeeze or a combination at depth. As said before if properly weighted the amt of gas for buoyancy is about what is needed to control squeeze. It is truly insulting to student's intelligence when they are taught by the book and nothing else and they find out the hard way. But that's what you get when you dumb down courses and shorten training times.

One thing that using the suit during training for buoyancy control does, is it gives you greater appreciation for staying ahead of the curve.

Steve .. you said .. "

fighting like crazy to get some type of control during these dives. It should be noted my drysuit class was done mostly in deeper water so the bubble I had to control was smaller which was much easier at depth.

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Your right, depth should have made your suit much easier to handle, so, you should not need to be fighting like crazy, IF you were properly weighted, and trained to be there

Shallow water is a major issue with a dry suit bubble if that is the only buoyancy device you are using

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.
I was taught first in shallow water before making any deep dives for the class ... if you can regain control of an over inflated suit, feet up, with a runaway inflator, at 8 feet, all without reaching the surface .. than real life usage should be a breeze.
You should have been able to manage this by the end of your course ... my instructor will not pass you if you can not

I am sorry you felt cheated by your PADI instructor, here's my experience with my thorough PADI dry suit class, what I learned ... it was very eye opening ... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/260824-padi-dry-suit-class.html


Another thing is not everyone uses their wing for buoyancy control, look for posts, you'll find that in very cold water using the suit provides more warmth

JimLap:

The reasoning behind it is that they feel that it is too much task loading for some divers. Especially new ones to control two buoyancy sources. And I have to say I agree. If you are not taught proper buoyancy control in Ow class and tested on task loading exercises then it may be. Of course if that is the case you have no business in OW anyway. Using two sources of possible control is NOT too much task loading for the diver of average intelligence who has been properly taught in the first place. Problem is many students never hear of real buoyancy control and trim until much later. They get screwed in this area. Hence the fighting for control, swimming vertically, and not knowing how to properly weight themselves in the first place. All things that should be covered in OW class. When discussing drysuits in OW class I tell them how most divers use the bc for buoyancy and suit for squeeze or a combination at depth. As said before if properly weighted the amt of gas for buoyancy is about what is needed to control squeeze. It is truly insulting to student's intelligence when they are taught by the book and nothing else and they find out the hard way. But that's what you get when you dumb down courses and shorten training times.

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Jim, you are as usual spot on. If there were more instructors like you there'd be a lot less of these kinds of threads.