Anyone up for doing some drills with me?

I'm all for doing some drills underwater. So far I've been doing them alone, which kinda sucks.

I was thinking of things like:

1. Shared air breathing and ascent/swim.
2. Complete removal of BCD underwater @ 20-30ft + swim up to the surface and diving back down to put back on the BCD underwater.
3. CESA with valve turned off.
4. Drysuit floaty feet roll.
5. Drysuit runaway inflator drill.
6. Complete mask removal and seeing how long one can function without a mask.
7. Controlled ascent with no mask.
8. Complete mask removal and BCD removal. Re-donning of BCD without a mask.
9. Wrap a line around tank valve and get tangled to something stationary. Get untangled.
10. Bringing an unresponsive buddy to the surface and towing him to shore.
11. Sharing air and bring up to the surface a totally panicked buddy. Like, not following any commands, flailing and ripping off your reg and mask and dragging you around kind of panic.
12. I would allow my buddy to rip off my mask and regulator as a surprise to see how I would deal with loss of vision + air.
13. I'd like to try buddy breathing and see what the fuss is all about with it being really difficult.
14. Do all of the above at night?

You can get menu items 1-4 in any decent Rescue class.

For menu items 5-13, may I suggest either the UTD Diner, or, the GUE Bistro. Ask for the Tech 1 Blue-Plate Special.


All the best, James


PS - every winter I mentor folks through a prep series aimed at Fundies/Essentials. It is weekdays in the afternoon. If you can make it, you're welcome to join in.

I have some concerns here... Always remember that point of doing drills is to practice the motions necessary to handle an emergency in a reasonably controlled situation - NOT to handle a real emergency, or create an opportunity for a real emergency. I would certainly not do very many (if any) of these drills alone. For a few of them, I think a 3rd person is required. For all of them, I think a 3rd person is valuable.

fuzzybabybunny:

2. Complete removal of BCD underwater @ 20-30ft + swim up to the surface and diving back down to put back on the BCD underwater.

Click to expand...

Do you use a weight belt, or a weight-integrated BC? If it's the latter, this is going to be a giant pain in the exposure protection we need in Monterey. Why so deep? Why not just do this in a pool? This is mostly an exercise in stress management and breath holds...

fuzzybabybunny:

3. CESA with valve turned off.

Click to expand...

Why does the valve need to be turned off? You know if you breathed in or not... Why not keep things safe?

fuzzybabybunny:

5. Drysuit runaway inflator drill.

Click to expand...

How far do you intend to take this drill? Just disconnecting and reconnecting the hose, or do you actually intend to jam on the inflator, potentially open a neck seal, etc.? If you intend to actually create an overinflation which might necessitate opening the neck seal, that's the end of your dive (minimally). Actually creating an overinflation should be done in a pool, where the consequences are minimized.

fuzzybabybunny:

9. Wrap a line around tank valve and get tangled to something stationary. Get untangled.

Click to expand...

I would rather call this drill, "how to recognize a problem, stop, and signal your buddy". Especially if it's done in the ocean.

fuzzybabybunny:

10. Bringing an unresponsive buddy to the surface and towing him to shore.
11. Sharing air and bring up to the surface a totally panicked buddy. Like, not following any commands, flailing and ripping off your reg and mask and dragging you around kind of panic.

Click to expand...

Both of these - in my opinion - require a 3rd person to observe and intervene if necessary when being done as a training exercise. Note: that implies that the 3rd person is known to be capable of intervening - it's not always as easy as you might think...

fuzzybabybunny:

12. I would allow my buddy to rip off my mask and regulator as a surprise to see how I would deal with loss of vision + air.
13. I'd like to try buddy breathing and see what the fuss is all about with it being really difficult.

Click to expand...

Both of these can be accomplished to full effect in a pool, where the potential consequences of your (heretofore unknown) reaction are minimized. I wouldn't do this in the ocean without a 3rd person, at least the first time.

fuzzybabybunny:

14. Do all of the above at night?

Click to expand...

Why? Just do them in the daytime while managing a light.

I totally agree with everything Brian says.

I'm always down to do drills, but a couple of those are pool-only for me.

fdog:

PS - every winter I mentor folks through a prep series aimed at Fundies/Essentials. It is weekdays in the afternoon. If you can make it, you're welcome to join in.

Click to expand...

That sounds pretty cool. If that's a general invitation, I'd love to impose.

One of my friend thinks you like to troll. I think he might just be right!

Reply is bolded. The reason I want to do these drills out in the wild is because these situations will be happening out in the wild. I get very little out of pool drills. I'm a fan of realistic and stressful simulations, not simulations in a warm pool where everyone is chilled out and comfortable. Doing these drills out in the wild also forces you to be comfortable with your surroundings and to suppress the tendency to panic.

Hepcat62:

I have some concerns here... Always remember that point of doing drills is to practice the motions necessary to handle an emergency in a reasonably controlled situation - NOT to handle a real emergency, or create an opportunity for a real emergency. I would certainly not do very many (if any) of these drills alone. For a few of them, I think a 3rd person is required. For all of them, I think a 3rd person is valuable.



Do you use a weight belt, or a weight-integrated BC? If it's the latter, this is going to be a giant pain in the exposure protection we need in Monterey. Why so deep? Why not just do this in a pool? This is mostly an exercise in stress management and breath holds...

Removal of BCD underwater. Both. I freedive with 16lb of weight, so I wear that on my belt. I put the remaining 8lb of weights in my BC. When I remove the BC I have minimal risk of shooting off to the surface should I lose grip of my BC. I consider this practice of dividing up your weight a very good idea for everyone. I don't think 20-30ft is that deep. There would be no stress whatsoever in a pool.

Why does the valve need to be turned off? You know if you breathed in or not... Why not keep things safe?

CESA with Valve off - at the beginning of the drill you can start to recognize the warning signs of OOA - and exactly how many breaths you have left and how to take those remaining breaths off of the existing air in your line. Having the valve on does not fully simulate an OOA and does not cause stress. For example, after doing this I know that quick panicked breathing out of a low tank doesn't work. I know that once I start to feel resistance my regs are still capable of delivering a good 3-4 breaths of air as I ascend and that I need to stay calm and not immediately think "Oh, that was my last breath!" I know that my computer will show 0 psi while I still have air left. I know what my computer's alarm sounds like (not very loud). I know not to go into a state of panic when I hear that alarm. I know that a slow 60ft/min controlled ascent is perfectly doable with how much gas I have in my lungs. I know that immediately pumping a bit of air into my BC or suit will help my ascent later (can just hang there motionless and float up, conserving oxygen). I know that pressing my reg's purge button will allow me to get more air out of it, and easier.

How far do you intend to take this drill? Just disconnecting and reconnecting the hose, or do you actually intend to jam on the inflator, potentially open a neck seal, etc.? If you intend to actually create an overinflation which might necessitate opening the neck seal, that's the end of your dive (minimally). Actually creating an overinflation should be done in a pool, where the consequences are minimized.

Runaway inflator - Disconnect/Reconnect the hose would work whilst simultaneously dumping the valve. Or look around for something to grab onto. Opening the neck seal would be done at the end of the day.

I would rather call this drill, "how to recognize a problem, stop, and signal your buddy". Especially if it's done in the ocean.

Getting Untangled - be self sufficient. Don't always rely on your buddy to be there. If you get separated and you get tangled doing an ascent to the surface to look for your buddy, you should be able to untangle yourself.

Both of these - in my opinion - require a 3rd person to observe and intervene if necessary when being done as a training exercise. Note: that implies that the 3rd person is known to be capable of intervening - it's not always as easy as you might think...

Unconscious and panicked diver. I agree.

Both of these can be accomplished to full effect in a pool, where the potential consequences of your (heretofore unknown) reaction are minimized. I wouldn't do this in the ocean without a 3rd person, at least the first time.

Ripping off of mask, buddy breathing - Again, the pool doesn't simulate the stress of cold, salty, ocean water getting flushed in your face, up your nose, in a wild environment. Same with doing buddy breathing in the ocean.

Why? Just do them in the daytime while managing a light.

The daytime does not properly simulate night time. As in everything around you is black except for your flashlight.

Click to expand...

aquaregia:

I'm always down to do drills, but a couple of those are pool-only for me.



That sounds pretty cool. If that's a general invitation, I'd love to impose.

Click to expand...

Let me know which ones you want to do and we'll schedule a time to go do them.

I wanted to respond to your responses, but I just don't have time.

Although I appreciate your ambition to put yourself as close to real life situations as possible, safety and other drills are NOT meant to put someone at risk to where you do have an actual emergency on your hands.
The point of drills is to minimize risk and giving people the knowledge of the best steps to take when the unexpected arises.

I agree with James that several of these really need a third "skilled" person to intervene as needed for the safety of the divers. Some of the items you mentioned they perform in BUD/S training for the Navy Seals and there is ALWAYS an instructor or 2 right on top of the student to assist if they panic or struggle.

Logged Dives: 25 - 49 <----- if this is fact, it might be a good idea to slow down and heed the advice of more advanced divers and take them up on offers such as James made regarding Fundies prep. The system wasn't put together on a whim. It has developed and evolved through years of experience and learning from what does and doesn't work.

And to be quite frank. If you keep going renegade and pushing the envelope carelessly, we'll see you in this forum: Accidents and Incidents - ScubaBoard

:zen:

For what it's worth, I suspect that the "last breath" from a turned-off tank is very different to breathing down a whole tank. I've never done it, this is just my reasoning based on the very different dry volumes involved (tens to hundreds of mL vs 10-15L).