My Ethical Dilema

Greetings All:

Well, I am faced with an ethical dilemma, and wanted some advice on what everybody else's take is.

I've been taking classes from my LDS to get my open water certification (PADI). I decided to spend the extra cash and take private one-on-one lessons, and boy am I glad that I did! I feel like the extra personal attention has made all of the difference in the world! With any luck, I should be certified by Friday afternoon.

The guys that work at the shop are all great (I was introduced to them all when I signed up for classes). The owner of the shop is behind the register everyday, and almost everyone that works there has a few THOUSAND dives under their belts (It's a PADI 5 Star shop to top it all). They are all very friendly, and love to just hang out at the shop with you, sharing wisdom and advice. In other words, as someone knew to diving, I couldn't ask for anything more.

Now, on to my ethical dilemma:

I want to purchase all of my own gear soon. Let's face it, rental equipment basically sucks, and I am already addicted to this sport, so I know that I'll be using the stuff a lot when I buy it. The owner of the dive shop (who has been diving for over 30 years now) spent some time going over different product lines with me, explaining the differences, and making recommendations for me in several different price ranges. No pressure to buy everything top of the line, just a genuine interest in seeing me get something that I would be happy with, in a price range that I'm comfortable with.

Well, I was feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, until I got home and went online. After a little bit of searching, I quickly realized something, my local dive shop is WAY WAY more expensive than buying this exact same equipment online. It seems that everything in the LDS is basically stickered at suggested retail price. Now, since I am being certified through this shop, I get 10% discount on everything in stock for life. However, this still gets me now where NEAR the price that I can get things for online.

For example, the regulator that I want (The LDS owner told me that I don't need this, but I saw it in the glass case and fell in love after reading it's little booklet. I have some money to spend, so what the hell):

IDI ALL TITANIUM SEAIRA TITANIUM/AIRTEC REGULATOR

My LDS: $1,450 - my 10% discount = $1,305
DiversDirect: Retail $1450 you pay $899.95

As you can see, we're talking about a difference of $400 here.

The obvious answer from a consumer perspective would be "WOW $400 cheaper, buy it online of course"! But, on the other hand, where would we all be without our LDS? For starters, I wouldn't even be getting certified. Secondly, I would have NO CLUE what type of equipment to buy, what it looks like or feels like in person, what size BCD fits me the best, etc. etc. Nor would I have access to really cheap day trips for diving that have been planned out by people that have been to those locations dozens of times.

I know that I'm probably not the only one that has faced this dilemma. I also know that it's basically a "do what you want to do" scenario. But, I'm curious. Do others out there spend more on gear than they really have to in order to support their LDS?

Should I be looking at this more of a "you're basically paying for your equipment PLUS services (aka advice and support)" perspective from my LDS than just "some gear in a box" from an online shop? After all, the LDS does have a lot of overhead that an online shop doesn't. Namely, a staff full of VERY knowledgeable people that make themselves VERY available to answer questions, and provide advice.

Or, am I being naive about all of this?

You have to live with the gear choices you make. If you end up buying something and feeling like crap over it because its not exactly what you want or you paid too much for it, then you'll feel bitter every time you think about it.

I'd suggest you do more research on gear and ask some more experience people in your area (that arent affiliated with the dive shop) for their opinions. You'll likely end up with a better regulator at a better price than the one you 've already chosen. Spend some time on scubaboard and you'll get a feel for the stuff that you should end up with. If you look into every individual piece of gear here you'll find that far too many of us have already spent wads and then changed our configs within a year or two because we weren't happy with our first round purchases. Save mucho bux and look into it first. There are quite a few stories of what people started with and what then ended up with and why.

Its a dilemma a lot of us have but you gotta do whats right for you in the end. Never forget that YOU went to THEM for something you've already paid money for - the course. You dont owe them any more than that. There is a feel-good factor if you can buy stuff there, but in the end, it wont matter one bit if you're unhappy with the whole thing.

Take a few weeks to get this stuff in order - you'll save thousands if you do it right. I didn't and spent litterally many thousands a couple times to get to where i am today. And where i am, i honestly dont see the need to buy any more stuff for many years to come as far as basic gear goes.

steve

I didn't answer you're poll... I'm a mixed buyer (some LDS and some online) but if anything I lean the other way from your poll. Fins, masks, basics that need no service I have no problem saving a bit of money and purchasing them online. Regulators and such, however, I'm more likely to support the LDS. Long term service from an LDS is sometimes worth the extra cost of the item.

Of course if I've learned anything, TALK TO THE LDS. If it's a good shop (you seem pleased with them so far) they'll probably work with you. Just remember that they have to pay for the storefront you went shopping in. Cruising the LDS to figure out what you want then buying online is 'ahem' not polite.

Just my 2 cents

Alex

P.S. I didn't comment on your gear choice.. Get advice from different sources before you buy...

A lot of items have much less if any warranty when bought online. I would check the situation with the online retailer and consider buying the more critical items a the LDS, and buy the simple items like fins, lights, reels, etc online. I would tend to buy masks at the LDS where I could check for fit. However, for replacements or additions requiring no test fit, I would definitely consider online.

You're talking about a $400 difference in a regulator alone, it's going to be a heafty bill by the time you buy everything. Tough call. You can go and show him the prices from the net site and see if he can do anything for you. He's got to be reasonable but you have to be too. I wouldn't go as far as asking for a matched prices but he should be willing to compromise.

You got great service and sounds like you made some friends. That's worth a lot too but there is definately a line. You have to decide where you draw it.

John,

I too was in a similar situation like you. My LDS is filled with alot of great people with tons of knowledge. I personally chose to buy my gear from my LDS for a few simple reasons.

1) If I ever needed my gear to be serviced, they could do it almost immediately. If you buy your gear online, the LDS would not honor the warranty nor service it. If you needed servicing mid-dive season, you'd have to send the unit back to the company and waste precious diving time ~ 2-4 weeks.

2) My LDS does and will give me breaks on gear when they can. True, it doesn't come close to online, but they are doing what they can to keep me as a customer.

3) ~90% of the time I go to get air fills, I don't get charged. While this may not sound like a big thing, think about it. If you do 30 dives in a season (all air ones), and the typical cost to get an air fill is ~ $5. They've just given you $100 of something free. This goes a long way in my book to me going back and buying something from them.

4) My LDS has their own type of product warranty. If you buy something from them, and it doesn't fit, is uncomfortable, whatever. Bring it back within a reasonable time frame and they'll give you full credit towards buying a different brand/type. I've personally done this. I bought a hood, dove with it twice, and hated it. Took it to my LDS, and they gave me credit which was used towards my current hood.

Mind you, these are just my opinions. Choose as you will. BTW, you might want to consider adding to the poll: Buy most things from LDS and occasionally buy online.

David

John,

First of all, welcome.

I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback on this (and on what a PADI 5-Star shop means), I'll just say this:

It's your money, and no one should tell you how to spend it. To me it's not so much an ethical dilemma as a practical one. You should take into account the fact that the shop provides a number of services to you including convienience, advice (which seems spot on so far), a chance to try gear on (mine lets you try it in their pool), service, warranty protection (which you might not get or get as conviently from an on-line dealer), as well as others I'm not even thinking of this early in the day. That service is probably worth something to you (in terms of $$$). i would think that you would want that shop to be around for a while. They can't survive and keep a qualified, helpful, knowledgable staff on arifills and classes alone.

Now that having been said, it's hard to justify paying $400 more on just a reg alone. I would suggest putting together a package, pricing it from both dealers (some LDSs offer better deals for packages, but some are hampered by "price protection" (i.e., price fixing) policies) and then discussing it with the owner of the shop, telling him that you want to buy from him, and is there anything he can do to come closer to the price of the on-line dealer. Sometimes they can.

Last observation, regarding the $400 difference on the reg alone, I'd agree with the owner, very few people need a $1,450 titanium regulator (or even a $900 one, for that matter), and here is a good example of the owner steering you right. Would an on-line dealer suggest that you not spend that much money with them? There are better places to put that money--like on dive trips (gee, did I just violate my first rule? Sorry). Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of buying good equipment. One of my favorite sayings is that when you buy good equipment, you only cry once. I'm just thinking that that reg goes beyond good and crosses the line into overkill.

I buy as much as I can from my LDS.
For a price difference of 10-15% it is a no-brainer, buy from the LDS. This is including the shipping/handling in the online price.

Often you can get other goodies like free air cards or other services that help the deal at the LDS.

Right now I can buy an AL80 tank at my LDS for $130. The same tank online costs between $120 and $130 plus $20 shipping.
Hmmmm, wonder what I will do?

Remember on a regulator to include the service costs over the number of years you expect to keep the reg. Just shipping the reg back and forth for service can add up over 10 years or so.

Make your own choice but know as much as you can first.

Remember to *ask* the LDS owner what he (she) can do to get closer to the value so that you can get the best deal overall, which probably involves keeping the LDS in business.
Example; The LDS might give you a certificate for one or more annual services on your new regulator. This is a value to you that is not so expensive for the LDS as a straight cash discount.

Be creative! Sometimes a little flexibility can really make a difference.

For the most part my comments agree with many of those above.

There are always other things to consider, however, and some include ambiguous things that are not always apparent.

First, indeed talk to your dive shop about a package deal. If you purchase a larger amount of gear you provide them with room to alter prices with greater flexibility.

Second, you will pay more to purchase the gear from your dive shop. You also get more for your money in terms of service and something called goodwill. Its intangible, but it appears on the year end report of many companies. As noted above, it may take the form of free fills, fast repairs, loaner equipment, try before you buy, preference on classes and trips, and many other benefits that won't be there if you buy online.

Third, you might be wise to identify the equipment you're considering and at least invite some input. You may not be pleased with all the input you receive, however, some of it may save you from learning some painful lessons. Many of us have items of expensive gear sitting in drawers or hanging in garages - all of it seemed like a good idea at the time. Some of the best lessons can be those learned with OPM - other people's money. For example,...about that regulator.... ah, never mind. Suffice to say that the up-front equipment costs can be significant, and it would be more prudent of you to try to get the most performance for your dollar.

Finally, a really good dive shop with excellent service is hard to find. If you find one, its worth a bit of effort to keep and to build that relationship.

FWIW.

Doc

i understand your dilemma. i took a drysuit class with a shop i liked a lot but i can get the drysuit i want $400 cheaper elsewhere. i will end up saving the $400. i just feel paying the extra $ is almost like a tip and although being nice is wonderful it does not warrant a tip of that magnitude. when you add in all the stuff you'll need besides the reg you are talking more than $1000. i don't know what kind of business you are in but no one is paying me 30-50% more than my competitors for being nice.

p.s: a titanium reg is a waste of money. performance is no better, the weight you save goes right back onto your weight belt, and titanium is problematic with higher O2 concentrations (which may be in your diving future).