Anyone dive with inverted manifolded twins. My dive buddy has difficulty reaching valves when used upright and is considering going inverted. It would seem to be the answer to his problems but the only valve protectors we can find are flimsy custom diver style that look as though they will bend as soon as you stand the tank on them. Any experience on protectors or diving inverted in general
inverted manifolded twins
- Thread starter nitroxrob
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Sas
Contributor
Your friend could also try independents or sidemounts? If reaching the valves is an issue.
This is a pretty US centric board so not sure how much help you'll get, seems to be more a European thing.
I've never dived with them but here's a thread though (you might be able to find people to help): http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ontario-fresh-water-freaks/69431-inverted-twin-cylinders.html
and a website: Nigel's twinset rig
This is a pretty US centric board so not sure how much help you'll get, seems to be more a European thing.
I've never dived with them but here's a thread though (you might be able to find people to help): http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ontario-fresh-water-freaks/69431-inverted-twin-cylinders.html
and a website: Nigel's twinset rig
You'll get lots of opinions on this, for sure....
The main advantage of inverting tanks is that two valves become easier to reach, I remain unconvinced about the isolator myself - so you may need a slob knob for that.
Many people will tell you "it's an equipment solution to a technique problem", which is certainly my personal view - but ultimately it's your choice, so filter through the responses and pick out what is useful for you.
I do think that you have to ask yourself why you want to invert the tanks. If it is that you are struggling to reach the valves, there are a lot of alternatives to try as well.
For me, the main advantage of having the tanks the "right" way around is that I can identify most manifold failures by hearing, and it becomes easy to check those by touch. That by far outweighs the difficulties that I have in reaching the valves (dodgy rotator cuff in left shoulder).
There is also a team advantage - we all have the same configuration, so if I can't identify a failure then people I;m diving with know where to look and how to resolve it. That certainly becomes an issue if you use a slob knob - you need to take the time to make sure that people you are diving with know exactly where you stow it.
I've never seen a good tank stand/valve protector for inverted tanks that is sold commercially. The ones that I have seen that are good have always been home made.
The main advantage of inverting tanks is that two valves become easier to reach, I remain unconvinced about the isolator myself - so you may need a slob knob for that.
Many people will tell you "it's an equipment solution to a technique problem", which is certainly my personal view - but ultimately it's your choice, so filter through the responses and pick out what is useful for you.
I do think that you have to ask yourself why you want to invert the tanks. If it is that you are struggling to reach the valves, there are a lot of alternatives to try as well.
For me, the main advantage of having the tanks the "right" way around is that I can identify most manifold failures by hearing, and it becomes easy to check those by touch. That by far outweighs the difficulties that I have in reaching the valves (dodgy rotator cuff in left shoulder).
There is also a team advantage - we all have the same configuration, so if I can't identify a failure then people I;m diving with know where to look and how to resolve it. That certainly becomes an issue if you use a slob knob - you need to take the time to make sure that people you are diving with know exactly where you stow it.
I've never seen a good tank stand/valve protector for inverted tanks that is sold commercially. The ones that I have seen that are good have always been home made.
Inverted doubles went out of style in the US (for good reason) somewhere in the early 1990s. Just about everyone seems to have "issues" reaching their valves in the beginning. Work with a decent instructor to decide/evaluate if there's really a biomechanical problem or maybe its just the drysuit/undergarments.
It would be very difficult to take technical training in the US with inverted doubles - it would be a rare instructor who accepts such a student configuration today.
Sidemount is a much more popular alternative nowadays
It would be very difficult to take technical training in the US with inverted doubles - it would be a rare instructor who accepts such a student configuration today.
Sidemount is a much more popular alternative nowadays
The UK has a bit more inertia to correct, I think! Inverted tanks will be around for a while to come...
ajduplessis
Contributor
As mentioned you will struggle to find an instructor willing to train with inverted doubles. The easiest way is to learn how to reach them. There are very simple and effective stretching techniques that will enable most people to reach the valves with regular stretching. If done regularly, increases in reach can be huge!!!!!
Background
Most of the shoulder is left suspended from the back and neck via muscle connections, which is good news and bad news. The bad news is that if you allow your muscles to get tight, then your range of motion will decrease. The good news is that soft tissue responds good to stretching, and over time you can gain very large increases in ranges of motion. I have summarised 5 easy stretches that will increase your reach dramatically.
Hanging Shoulder Stretch
1. Place palms on a wall, shoulder width apart,
keeping the elbows straight.
2. Walk your feet backward as you lean your chest
towards the floor until stretch is achieved.
Hint: If you’re tall enough, you can use a doorway.
Pectoral Stretch (High/Mid/Low)
1. Place palm on wall or doorway. To stretch the lower pec, the hand
should be at head level. To stretch the mid pec, the hand should be
at chest level. To stretch the upper pec, the hand should be at
stomach level.
2. Rotate upper body away from the wall until stretch is achieved.
Posterior Deltoid/Rhomboid Stretch
1. Reach your right hand over your left shoulder.
2. Place your left hand behind your right elbow.
3. With right arm relaxed, press on the elbow until
stretch is achieved.
Latissimus Dorsi/Triceps Stretch
1. Reach your right hand behind your neck.
2. Place your left hand behind your right elbow.
You might have to reach around the back of your
head to get the best stretch.
Swimmers Stretch
1. Reach both arms behind your back.
2. Clasp hands while keeping arms as straight as
possible.
3. Press arms up as high as possible.
3. With right arm relaxed, press on the elbow until
stretch is achieved.
Background
Most of the shoulder is left suspended from the back and neck via muscle connections, which is good news and bad news. The bad news is that if you allow your muscles to get tight, then your range of motion will decrease. The good news is that soft tissue responds good to stretching, and over time you can gain very large increases in ranges of motion. I have summarised 5 easy stretches that will increase your reach dramatically.
Hanging Shoulder Stretch
1. Place palms on a wall, shoulder width apart,
keeping the elbows straight.
2. Walk your feet backward as you lean your chest
towards the floor until stretch is achieved.
Hint: If you’re tall enough, you can use a doorway.
Pectoral Stretch (High/Mid/Low)
1. Place palm on wall or doorway. To stretch the lower pec, the hand
should be at head level. To stretch the mid pec, the hand should be
at chest level. To stretch the upper pec, the hand should be at
stomach level.
2. Rotate upper body away from the wall until stretch is achieved.
Posterior Deltoid/Rhomboid Stretch
1. Reach your right hand over your left shoulder.
2. Place your left hand behind your right elbow.
3. With right arm relaxed, press on the elbow until
stretch is achieved.
Latissimus Dorsi/Triceps Stretch
1. Reach your right hand behind your neck.
2. Place your left hand behind your right elbow.
You might have to reach around the back of your
head to get the best stretch.
Swimmers Stretch
1. Reach both arms behind your back.
2. Clasp hands while keeping arms as straight as
possible.
3. Press arms up as high as possible.
3. With right arm relaxed, press on the elbow until
stretch is achieved.
All excellent suggestions but an ill fitting drysuit undergarment is an even faster fix! Nitroxrob can your buddy reach his valves without his suit on?
I prefer valve down singles and doubles, but it requires additional valve protection on doubles so you can sit down without damage. It is also a little more awkward on deck with larger doubles because you need to flip them over for storage and attaching regulators.
I not only like valve-down for access but also find that risk of damage and entanglement in poor visibility and in close quarters is lower. I have heard the top of bottles bang against some unseen obstruction more than once. It would be even better if there was a resilient top cap that would span both bottles, but I have never seen one.
Most of the protective brackets I have seen are made in the UK and are fabricated from stainless. They clamp around the cylinder neck and also act as a handle since you can't grab the manifold comfortably.
I not only like valve-down for access but also find that risk of damage and entanglement in poor visibility and in close quarters is lower. I have heard the top of bottles bang against some unseen obstruction more than once. It would be even better if there was a resilient top cap that would span both bottles, but I have never seen one.
Most of the protective brackets I have seen are made in the UK and are fabricated from stainless. They clamp around the cylinder neck and also act as a handle since you can't grab the manifold comfortably.
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