What are good BC's?

[brandnew]

I'm new to diving and trying to figure out what is worth buying and what would be a waste of money. (not to mention I like difficult questions)

I'm wondering what would be a good BC that I would not have to replace soon. The local dive shop reconmended the latitude XLT, although I like it overall the plastic D-rings concern me. Unfortantly all he carries are Agualung BC's which leaves me wondering how high quality are Agualung BC's, and what other brands are there? I semi close shop carries scubapro products. What would you guys recomend for a new diver who doesn't have a lot of money and defintily doesn't want to replace a several hundred dollar peice of equipment soon after buying it.

Trying to figure out what is a good quality BC that doesn't have a lot of extra stuff that is not needed an only drives the price up.

Thank you

Ernest

 

[PvtStash]

maybe take a look at the Apeks WTX BCD ... its a rec-tec BC, a BP/W setup with some cosmetic niceties (shoulder/back pads etc)... you can use it with a single tank (no STA required) and when your ready for doubles at some later date you pop in a backplate and viola! good to go.

I used a Latitude XLT in training as well, but went with the WTX and much prefer its expandability and the way it naturally trims out.

 

[stairman]

zeagle Ranger,Dive-rite transpac w/classic or rec wing.

 

[DiveMaven]

IMO, the best BC is the one that fits you perfectly. Brand doesn't matter as much as fit.

 

[keyshunter]

Divemaven has it right. Regardless of all the "my dog is better than your dog" comments one reads on the boards, no major manufacturer currently markets a "bad" bc.

 

[divenutny]

You need to determine what you want to limit the field. (jacket vs. back imflation, weight integration, pockets, metal clips, etc). Fit is very important. You may want to learn, the bouyancy of the BC. This is not easy to find out. Some BC's can require an additional 5 lbs on your weight belt (like Mares Syncro Pro).

Happy Shopping!

 

[Walter]

All styles of BC have excellent models and poor models. Some prefer a vest, others prefer back inflate, some love BP/wing while a rare few won't give up their horse collars. All of the styles work quite well IF they are well designed. If they are poorly designed (quite common) they don't work nearly as well. I've used all styles of BCs. I've found excellent BCs in them all and poor ones in them all.

Two advantages of the BP/wing are: 1. you can fit it exactly to you regardless of your size and how are you are to fit. You can also change wings if you move to large doubles and need more lift.

Common myths:

Back inflate and BP/wings push you face down in the water (it's just not so and no BC is designed to float an unconscious person face up).

You can only use doubles with a BP/wing (you can wear doubles with any BC as long as the BC has enough lift).

I'm much more concerned about how well a BC is designed than which particular style it may be.

Things to look for in a BC:

1. Dump valve at the highest point of the BC. - Inflate the BC and hold it up as if you were wearing it at the surface. Is the dump valve at the highest point? If not, look for a different BC. If it is, turn it as if you were swimming in a prone position. Is there a dump valve at the highest point? A good BC will pass both tests. If the dump valve is not at the highest point, it will trap air, requiring contortions to dump all the air or additional lead. A nice extra is a right shoulder dump valve and dump valves at the bottom. Some very popular BCs fail this test.

2. No padding - Padding requires additional weight, yet compresses at depth so it no longer cushions. Additionally, air in a BC lifts the BCs weight off your back rendering padding redundant. Padding also increases drag, making dives in current more difficult and increasing your air consumption.

3. No cummerbund - Cummerbunds increase drag.

4. No fabric covering of the bladder. - These BCs are sometimes called "bladderless" or "single bladder BCs." The fabric covering creates drag in current.

Of these 4 points, the first is critical, the others are nice to have.

The Scubapro Classic Sport passes all these tests. Most other Scubapro BCs pass the first and fourth, but not the second and third. I'm not familiar with the latitude XLT.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Two advantages of the BP/wing are: 1. you can fit it exactly to you regardless of your size and how are you are to fit. You can also change wings if you move to large doubles and need more lift.

You can only use doubles with a BP/wing (you can wear doubles with any BC as long as the BC has enough lift).

I disagree. While it may be possible to use doubles with some jackets it is very seldom done. In addition there are jacket BC's that lack any means to attach doubles to them. Most jackets lack a crotch strap. Crotch straps are nice to have with ~100 lbs of tanks and gas and regs sliding down your back if you are heads down.

Things to look for in a BC:

1. Dump valve at the highest point of the BC. - Inflate the BC and hold it up as if you were wearing it at the surface. Is the dump valve at the highest point? If not, look for a different BC. If it is, turn it as if you were swimming in a prone position. Is there a dump valve at the highest point? A good BC will pass both tests. If the dump valve is not at the highest point, it will trap air, requiring contortions to dump all the air or additional lead. A nice extra is a right shoulder dump valve and dump valves at the bottom. Some very popular BCs fail this test.

Almost all wings have the fill hose at or very near the "top" of the wing. The fill hose is a means to vent the wing. Festooning a bc with multiple dump valves is the classic example of adding gear to compensate for poor technique. It adds cost, failure points and conditions the diver to reach every where when they need to vent gas.

All BC's need at least one OPV (over pressure valve, aka rear dump) and a fill hose / power inflator. More than that is decoration, IMO.

2. No padding - Padding requires additional weight, yet compresses at depth so it no longer cushions. Additionally, air in a BC lifts the BCs weight off your back rendering padding redundant. Padding also increases drag, making dives in current more difficult and increasing your air consumption.

3. No cummerbund - Cummerbunds increase drag.

2 & 3 are very true. Padding, and padded cummerbunds add needless buoyancy

4. No fabric covering of the bladder. - These BCs are sometimes called "bladderless" or "single bladder BCs." The fabric covering creates drag in current.

Well sort of. If drag reduction is the key criteria using the smallest lift capacity that safely meets the requirements of the dive will be far more important than construction method. In addition wings with sewn outer shells and urethane inner bladders are more robust than bladderless designs.

Tobin

 

[Walter]

I disagree. While it may be possible to use doubles with some jackets it is very seldom done.

I do it quite often with a vest and I've been doing it for 19 years.

Crotch straps are nice to have with ~100 lbs of tanks and gas and regs sliding down your back if you are heads down.

You avoid the slide (which is not really an issue). I'll avoid 100 lbs of tanks crushing my nuts.

Almost all wings have the fill hose at or very near the "top" of the wing.

That's a very good thing if it's at the highest point when in both vertical and prone positions.

The fill hose is a means to vent the wing.

Obviously. It's also the one used by most divers almost all the time.

Festooning a bc with multiple dump valves is the classic example of adding gear to compensate for poor technique.

What poor technique is that?

It adds cost, failure points and conditions the diver to reach every where when they need to vent gas.

It does not condition divers to do any such thing. Most divers use their inflator hose exclusively to dump air regardless of how many dumps are in their BC. I use the right shoulder dump almost exclusively. I can't remember the last time I used another method of dumping air.

All BC's need at least one OPV (over pressure valve, aka rear dump) and a fill hose / power inflator. More than that is decoration, IMO.

No arguments there, except that the over pressure valve is not also known as a rear dump. An over pressure valve can be in other positions. I prefer the right shoulder to the rear dump.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I do it quite often with a vest and I've been doing it for 19 years.

I never said it was impossible. Anecdotal reports from a single user is not evidence of common usage. Any casual poll of divers using doubles will reveal the majority are using a plate and wing.

You avoid the slide (which is not really an issue). I'll avoid 100 lbs of tanks crushing my nuts.

Can you show me any reported incidence of "crushed nuts" due to a properly adjusted hogarthian harness?

That's a very good thing if it's at the highest point when in both vertical and prone positions.

Can you show me a wing with wide spread distribution today that lacks this very feature?

Obviously. It's also the one used by most divers almost all the time.

Ah no, not quite. The overwhelming majority of jacket BC's sold today feature a cable operated "pull dump" located at the "fill" fitting on the BC. Yanking on the corrugated hose operated these "pull dumps" That's not the same as raising the inflator and venting via the oral inflate valve.

What poor technique is that?

You suggest here

A nice extra is a right shoulder dump valve and dump valves at the bottom.

That a "nice" BC should have 4-5 valves.

1) The left shoulder is default position for the fill hose / cable actuated pull dump
2) the Above mentioned extra right shoulder dump
3 & 4) The above mentioned "dump valves at the bottom"
5) The oral inflate valve on the power inflator.

One does no need 5 ways to vent a BC. Good technique will allow venting with only two, the Oral inflate, and the rear OPV or Rear Dump.

It does not condition divers to do any such thing. Most divers use their inflator hose exclusively to dump air regardless of how many dumps are in their BC. I use the right shoulder dump almost exclusively. I can't remember the last time I used another method of dumping air.

Then why do you suggest that additional dumps improve the BC?

No arguments there, except that the over pressure valve is not also known as a rear dump.

Ah well..... yes it is. Do search here or on TDS using "rear dump" include the quotes.

Let me know what you discover.

Also check this link http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/dumpvalve_mod.html
Peter Steinhoff refers to the OPV as a "dump valve" This valve is of course at the "rear" or lower portion of the wing, and is in close proximity to the diver's very own "rear"

An over pressure valve can be in other positions. I prefer the right shoulder to the rear dump.

Apparently even you use the term rear dump to describe the OPV / Dump valve found on many BC's....... Unless there is some other kinda "rear dump" I've never seen.....

Tobin