2 flies on the ceiling...PANIC!!!!!!!
- Thread starter InkDiver
- Start date
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I make it a habit to check gas valves prior to donning my rig, and then have my buddy check it prior to splashing, and vice versa. It's happened on rare occasion that one check has been missed -- never both.
Threads like this are largely responsible for creating what I believe to be those good habits.
Thanks for the reminder, Ink...
Threads like this are largely responsible for creating what I believe to be those good habits.
Thanks for the reminder, Ink...
Boy, it never ceases to amaze me how a thread can take on a life of its own here. To address a few of the questions:
TSandM is right, this happened in the Ballroom, and these were definitely OW divers.
The panicked diver got down to about 35-40 feet, I'd say, and it took them a few minutes to get there. As I mentioned, the valve was VERY slightly open.
To those who mentioned that in a situation like this, everything goes out the window, I'd have to disagree. Continued training and practice practice practice will provide the muscle memory that allows you to react quickly. I was really impressed with my buddy, he was on them like white on rice with his reg out for them in an instant. No hesitation at all. I attribute that to extensive training and drilling of the skills.
As far as the long hose, not long hose thing....yawn..... this thread didn't start off making any judgements about anyone's configuration. personally, I dive a long hose and donate my primary, but that is due to my cave training, and that is what works FOR ME. My buddy swam over and offered his primary on a long hose even though the divers in trouble weren't diving that configuration, he didn't care. It doesn't really matter the configuration you are diving, we all need to practice the skills for OOA(OOG) situations on a regular basis, period!!
TSandM is right, this happened in the Ballroom, and these were definitely OW divers.
The panicked diver got down to about 35-40 feet, I'd say, and it took them a few minutes to get there. As I mentioned, the valve was VERY slightly open.
To those who mentioned that in a situation like this, everything goes out the window, I'd have to disagree. Continued training and practice practice practice will provide the muscle memory that allows you to react quickly. I was really impressed with my buddy, he was on them like white on rice with his reg out for them in an instant. No hesitation at all. I attribute that to extensive training and drilling of the skills.
As far as the long hose, not long hose thing....yawn..... this thread didn't start off making any judgements about anyone's configuration. personally, I dive a long hose and donate my primary, but that is due to my cave training, and that is what works FOR ME. My buddy swam over and offered his primary on a long hose even though the divers in trouble weren't diving that configuration, he didn't care. It doesn't really matter the configuration you are diving, we all need to practice the skills for OOA(OOG) situations on a regular basis, period!!
dbulmer
Contributor
In some ways I have some sympathy for Boxcar in that the primary issue here is how to get gas to the OOA diver - I'm afraid I don't agree with his view on the long hose but on reading this thread the issue as I see it is that a predive check failed and as a result of that an OOA ensued - how this turned into the merits of the long hose defeats me and it wasn't Boxcar who raised the long hose debate !
The issue is how the OOA was handled - It wasn't pretty (from InkDiver's perspective) but the OOA diver survived and will probably have learned from this - We can all have bad days - we just try to stack things in our favour to ensure that the good days outweigh the bad ones.
The issue is how the OOA was handled - It wasn't pretty (from InkDiver's perspective) but the OOA diver survived and will probably have learned from this - We can all have bad days - we just try to stack things in our favour to ensure that the good days outweigh the bad ones.
UnderSeaBumbleBee
Contributor
I think the issue came up because the dive buddy who had his reg snatched was for whatever reason unable to get to his octo. If it had been around his neck he could have grabbed it and had an air source while the paniced diver dragged him away.
The dive buddy donated his primary whether he was willing to or not.
The issue is if someone comes and takes your reg, what is best for you? You may be of the mindset that I will donate my octo in whatever manner I think best. Chances are a diver who is in a panic doesn't much care for your mindset. With that in mind regardless of your desired config, you should be ready for someone to jerk your reg right out of your mouth without you being able to see it coming. And you should be prepared to get another gas source in your mouth easily and quickly while being dragged away.
So donate the longhose/primary theory is that I already plan to part ways with that reg and I have a plan to get gas back in my mouth asap with a reg under my chin. You can of course get an octo in your mouth, but it takes a second or two longer and if you are being dragged, it might take a second or two more. Will you have enough time? You won't know until it happens, but if you practice what ever config you dive, you have a better chance of having enough time to solve the problem.
The dive buddy donated his primary whether he was willing to or not.
The issue is if someone comes and takes your reg, what is best for you? You may be of the mindset that I will donate my octo in whatever manner I think best. Chances are a diver who is in a panic doesn't much care for your mindset. With that in mind regardless of your desired config, you should be ready for someone to jerk your reg right out of your mouth without you being able to see it coming. And you should be prepared to get another gas source in your mouth easily and quickly while being dragged away.
So donate the longhose/primary theory is that I already plan to part ways with that reg and I have a plan to get gas back in my mouth asap with a reg under my chin. You can of course get an octo in your mouth, but it takes a second or two longer and if you are being dragged, it might take a second or two more. Will you have enough time? You won't know until it happens, but if you practice what ever config you dive, you have a better chance of having enough time to solve the problem.
charlesml3
Contributor
I doubt they were either but is that fact really relevant here? At Ginnie Springs or Palancar Gardens in Cozumel, she'd still be OOA due to the fact her tank valve was only barely open.
-Charles
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It was an appropriate answer to my post, yes. Perhaps you missed mine?
ucfdiver
Contributor
I think the level of panic when you're in an environment you were not trained for makes this relevant. These divers had never been trained on how to share air in an overhead environment, and while this one is labeled "Open Water Safe", I'm sure it would play mind games on you having your first overhead air share drill without an instructor or any warning. These divers *might* have calmly exited in OW just as if it were a drill in class (or they might not have). IMO all factors are worth discussing when we're talking accident analysis, no matter how small.
I've heard several cave instructors say this, the hardest part is mental. If you're not trained for the environment you're in, what does that do to your head, your confidence, and never having done an OOA drill in overhead, was there even any muscle memory to work with?
My guess is these divers had never done an OOA drill without direct access to the surface. InkDiver's point of practicing air share drills is a VERY important one, and having dove with him, he conducts a s drill before every dive, practicing what he's preaching here.
LiteHedded
Contributor
and people think the ballroom is boring
HA!
had these two had overhead training she wouldn't have had to rip the reg out of his mouth. by the time she reached him he would've understood her signaling and had his reg out and ready to donate. instead he looked at her like a deer in the headlights as she swam towards him and she had no choice by that time but to mug him for his reg.
had they been better able to communicate with each other I think the outcome would have been quite different.
but all is well, thank god, and I think she was going back in the water a short time later.
HA!
had these two had overhead training she wouldn't have had to rip the reg out of his mouth. by the time she reached him he would've understood her signaling and had his reg out and ready to donate. instead he looked at her like a deer in the headlights as she swam towards him and she had no choice by that time but to mug him for his reg.
had they been better able to communicate with each other I think the outcome would have been quite different.
but all is well, thank god, and I think she was going back in the water a short time later.
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