Long hose for a new diver

[Teamcasa]

OK, Let me first add a few caveats. I have donated air to an OOA diver. I have donated air to an OOA diver that was not my buddy and in full panic. I have used the buddy breathing method many years ago. I have witnessed an uncontrolled assent caused by a panicked, OOA diver dragging his donor to the surface with him.

I'm sure that long hose divers will justify their gear choice and rightly so. Long hoses can and do provide a safe and easy method for sharing air between two well trained divers, particularly in a confined space. Long hose divers feel comfortable using this setup in any diving venue, however, it is not the only right solution for non-confined space diving.

My only two issues with long hoses (and believe me, they are minor ones) is that a brand new diver, using a long hose faces a (slightly) greater risk when faced with a determined OOA diver and that a long hose in open water provides no real advantage over a standard length hose.

 

[Gombessa]

I'm sure that long hose divers will justify their gear choice and rightly so. Long hoses can and do provide a safe and easy method for sharing air between two well trained divers, particularly in a confined space. Long hose divers feel comfortable using this setup in any diving venue, however, it is not the only right solution for non-confined space diving.

My only two issues with long hoses (and believe me, they are minor ones) is that a brand new diver, using a long hose faces a (slightly) greater risk when faced with a determined OOA diver and that a long hose in open water provides no real advantage over a standard length hose.

I agree with everything you said above, except, "a long hose in open water provides no real advantage over a standard length hose." Obviously, it has real advantages. Obviously, it has real disadvantages, particularly as you stated, for newer divers first learning to use a long-hose. But in the end, the language you stated in bold is right on.

I do want to share a few problems I encountered when I first started diving a long hose, which I felt were non-issues with the standard primary length and octo:

1. It can be easy to mess up routing; we do a lot of s-drills and still occasionally get confused with left-or-right loop, often depending on how the donee returns the hose - oops.

2. Some hose lengths can be too long/short if you don't have a can light or pocket to tuck under.

3. Donating requires ducking your head - the first time I practiced, I didn't do so and it was like sharing air through an Air2 hose.

4. You can don your regulators in a way that traps the long hose and hinders deployment - I've donned the long hose before the bungee backup, oops! Mod-S drills before dives are important.

5. It does take a bit of practice before everything becomes second-nature. I think a lot of long-time long-hose users forget this (or I'm just a particularly slow-learner).

When asked by new divers about switching to a long hose, I often advise them NOT to just do so on their own - instead, they should find someone who dives a long hose to go through the procedures and differences so they can avoid these minor pitfalls. Finding the hose trapped during an air share is a pretty big stressor.

I see it as one of those things where the rewards are truly great if you put in the minimal effort needed to learn the system. But it does require that minimal effort, and isn't purely insert-reg-go-dive like a standard setup is.

 

[danvolker]

OK, Let me first add a few caveats. I have donated air to an OOA diver. I have donated air to an OOA diver that was not my buddy and in full panic. I have used the buddy breathing method many years ago. I have witnessed an uncontrolled assent caused by a panicked, OOA diver dragging his donor to the surface with him.

I'm sure that long hose divers will justify their gear choice and rightly so. Long hoses can and do provide a safe and easy method for sharing air between two well trained divers, particularly in a confined space. Long hose divers feel comfortable using this setup in any diving venue, however, it is not the only right solution for non-confined space diving.

My only two issues with long hoses (and believe me, they are minor ones) is that a brand new diver, using a long hose faces a (slightly) greater risk when faced with a determined OOA diver and that a long hose in open water provides no real advantage over a standard length hose.

OK, I understand your general comment, and if it were not for the OP's original question being very important to him--his daughter's safety...I would not waste your time with my DIR based "other views "

My point, is that this father SHOULD NOT CONCERN HIMSELF with the safety of OTHER divers..his sole obligation is to his daughter as his buddy. He is new, and his job is his buddy, not everyone else's buddies.....And when he has 100 dives under his belt, then he can tackle helping even "never-evers" if he wants to..For now, he should concentrate only on his buddy, and have done many drills in pool and on baby dives in ocean, to make sure the air sharing is without stress for both of them.

If you really feel strongly about the risk the father will face regarding some marauding OOA diver who rushes him, and takes off for the surface with his long hose .. ..... I will say that as long as he is not an asthmatic, even if he did not have control of the OOA diver... he could just resist the fast ascent a little with body drag and dumping his wing--the fast ascent is not going to be life threatening...on the surface, he would then make sure the panicked diver is OK and has an inflated BC, and then he could go back down to 60 feet and begin a slow ascent and long 10 foot stop. It would take a couple of minutes on the surface to hypersaturate, even from a tech dive to 275 feet, so as long as he goes right back down, it is just a good lesson to avoid boats that cater to Never-evers.

 

[Teamcasa]

My point, is that this father SHOULD NOT CONCERN HIMSELF with the safety of OTHER divers..his sole obligation is to his daughter as his buddy. He is new, and his job is his buddy, not everyone else's buddies.....And when he has 100 dives under his belt, then he can tackle helping even "never-evers" if he wants to..For now, he should concentrate only on his buddy, and have done many drills in pool and on baby dives in ocean, to make sure the air sharing is without stress for both of them.

On this, we are in 100% agreement.

If you really feel strongly about the risk the father will face regarding some marauding OOA diver who rushes him, and takes off for the surface with his long hose .. ..... I will say that as long as he is not an asthmatic, even if he did not have control of the OOA diver... he could just resist the fast ascent a little with body drag and dumping his wing--the fast ascent is not going to be life threatening...on the surface, he would then make sure the panicked diver is OK and has an inflated BC, and then he could go back down to 60 feet and begin a slow ascent and long 10 foot stop. It would take a couple of minutes on the surface to hypersaturate, even from a tech dive to 275 feet, so as long as he goes right back down, it is just a good lesson to avoid boats that cater to Never-evers.

On this, we do not see eye to eye but that's for a whole other thread.

 

[Peter Guy]

Many new divers using nonsense like the Air2, will find bouyancy control hindered, if not dangerously difficult for the buddy team.

I don't get this comment -- not one bit. I use a 40" hose on my primary reg and use the AirSource (Air2 equiv) and don't have any problems with buoyancy control. What's with this comment?

While I have some criticisms of the AirSource (it is too stiff in my opinion and makes turning my head strongly to the right difficult), it presents no problems whatsoever in airsharing. If someone actually thinks they share the AirSource then yes, I can see the point -- but then the person has more problems than just this!

So, please, tell me what the problem is with using the AirSource/Air2 type setup -- AS LONG AS the primary reg is on the appropriate length hose!

 

[danvolker]

I don't get this comment -- not one bit. I use a 40" hose on my primary reg and use the AirSource (Air2 equiv) and don't have any problems with buoyancy control. What's with this comment?

While I have some criticisms of the AirSource (it is too stiff in my opinion and makes turning my head strongly to the right difficult), it presents no problems whatsoever in airsharing. If someone actually thinks they share the AirSource then yes, I can see the point -- but then the person has more problems than just this!

So, please, tell me what the problem is with using the AirSource/Air2 type setup -- AS LONG AS the primary reg is on the appropriate length hose!

Peter, you are not a "new" diver, so I would not expect you to have bouyancy problems with the system you describe--but, a new diver using standard BC and standard reg hoses, will be just barely OK for bouyancy control most of the time, with the BC in normal operation....give them the issue of controling bouyancy from their air source, while bumping into another diver and having difficulty swimming, and this is just one more additional stress they don't need.

I have NEVER seen a diver using an AIr 2 practicing air shares with a buddy---my expectation is that they do not think they will need to, but they do want the ability to air share if an emergency occurs..but basically, they like the smaller gear profile of the Air2 type system.

We see a lot of air2 type set ups in S fla...and usually NOT in the brand new divers, it is usually in the fairly heavy experience category, where I would not expect an accident caused by the AIR2..
....but just because a well seasoned diver can use this, does not make it a great rig to promote the use of....particularly to brand new divers. I could say that you and I could dive safely with each of us just wearing a single hose reg with no octos--and if buddy breathing was needed, we would share as done back in the old days. But just because you and I could do this, would not make it a good set up to promote on a new diver forum
For that matter, back in the old days, I use to really love diving a steel 72 with a harness ( no bc/no wing) and the single reg. It was slick, and for S fl diving with a skin suit, it was fun to dive...since the 90's, It has been backplate and wing with long hose for me and my dive buddies.

Rather than slamming the Air2, what I should have been trying to get across is the extreme ease , comfort, and optimal bouyancy control typical with a long hose air share.


Sorry for the negativity.
Dan V

 

[Teamcasa]

Rather than slamming the Air2, what I should have been trying to get across is the extreme ease , comfort, and optimal bouyancy control typical with a long hose air share.

Dan, IMHO, comfort and optimal bouyancy control have significantly more to do with the divers experience and skill than it does with the length of any hose.

 

[jtpwils]

Originally Posted by danvolker
My point, is that this father SHOULD NOT CONCERN HIMSELF with the safety of OTHER divers..his sole obligation is to his daughter as his buddy. He is new, and his job is his buddy, not everyone else's buddies.....And when he has 100 dives under his belt, then he can tackle helping even "never-evers" if he wants to..For now, he should concentrate only on his buddy, and have done many drills in pool and on baby dives in ocean, to make sure the air sharing is without stress for both of them.

On this, we are in 100% agreement.

That makes two of us.

As an aside. I was talking with my daughter after class. We decided that we'll also practice our mask skills, OOA skills, etc. after the safety stop of each dive.

 

[TSandM]

That's a superb decision! Not only will you keep your emergency skills sharp, but you'll work on your buoyancy control while task-loaded if you do these things in the water column, too.

I also think that practicing emergency procedures keeps you thinking about the things you need to do to make sure you never need them

 

[Teamcasa]

That makes two of us.

As an aside. I was talking with my daughter after class. We decided that we'll also practice our mask skills, OOA skills, etc. after the safety stop of each dive.

Excellent plan. This something all divers, not just the new ones should do. After all, what else is there to do for that 5 minutes