Long hose for a new diver
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Sas
Contributor
How is this *any* different to a standard hose setup? Just because you have 5' or 7' of hose does not mean you have to use all of it. And besides someone panicked can drag you to the surface on a shorter hose as well. I don't get what you are trying to say here...
This is not true. Some of the advantages of a long hose setup (with bungee backup) are:
-you know you are donating a working reg
-you can choose to have the diver close or 7' from you
-backup is easy for you to locate
-easier to swim side by side
Anyway, it really comes down to personal preference so I am not trying to say people should only use this setup, but it is silly to say there is no advantage of this setup in OW.
All these comments make me curious, so I am going to level here. I have never once had to donate air to someone in over 6 years of diving. I have had to bring divers up when they were low on air, but as I DM I usually catch them before they suck the bottle dry (so to speak). How many of you have? I am genuinely curious. Some of you make this whole long hose thing (bear in mind I have one too) to be like a life and death thing for open water diving, which I really feel is bad case of groupthink that sometimes happens here. I understand the merit in wrecks and caves, I really do.
Sas, ligers, Andy, everyone else...how many times have you actually given a diver one of your second stages (in any form) when they were actually, physically out of air? I understand if you dive that way because you like to (which I support), but do you HAVE to dive that way? Many of you seem to make it out to be that way.
I am not anti-long hose (remember, I use one, just not all the time), but a great deal of people on here are certainly anti-standard hoses. Keep in mind that for the first 40 or so years of diving we didn't have long hoses, and people weren't dropping like flies. I understand if it's the only way you will dive, but I hesitate when people give me this whole "any other way is dangerous" line of malarky.
There are definite disadvantages to the long hose setup. Try diving a river or a snag rich environment with one. I had that stupid snap-swivel on my primary tangle around a piece of bridge debris so bad that I thought I was going to have to cut it away with my knife. Beaching diving with that setup is a pain in the rear too, because with the secondary around your neck it love to freeflow on the swim out to sea.
I'm not trying to be the squeeky wheel here. I just wish that some of you would finally admit that the long hose setup is not the holy grail of diving. I don't run around saying that everyone should use a 26" primary and 40" secondary. The mission dictates the equipment, not the other way around.
Sas, ligers, Andy, everyone else...how many times have you actually given a diver one of your second stages (in any form) when they were actually, physically out of air? I understand if you dive that way because you like to (which I support), but do you HAVE to dive that way? Many of you seem to make it out to be that way.
I am not anti-long hose (remember, I use one, just not all the time), but a great deal of people on here are certainly anti-standard hoses. Keep in mind that for the first 40 or so years of diving we didn't have long hoses, and people weren't dropping like flies. I understand if it's the only way you will dive, but I hesitate when people give me this whole "any other way is dangerous" line of malarky.
There are definite disadvantages to the long hose setup. Try diving a river or a snag rich environment with one. I had that stupid snap-swivel on my primary tangle around a piece of bridge debris so bad that I thought I was going to have to cut it away with my knife. Beaching diving with that setup is a pain in the rear too, because with the secondary around your neck it love to freeflow on the swim out to sea.
I'm not trying to be the squeeky wheel here. I just wish that some of you would finally admit that the long hose setup is not the holy grail of diving. I don't run around saying that everyone should use a 26" primary and 40" secondary. The mission dictates the equipment, not the other way around.
H2Andy
Contributor
heck no
people were cave diving long before there were back up regulators, let alone a seven-foot hose (buddy breathing was a real pain back then, passing one regulator back and forth between two divers)
but is it easier and safer? you betcha, when you need to do a long ascent with several safety and/or deco stops ... it's just so much easier ... and anything that reduces stress and discomfort is a plus in an emergency
I totally agree in this situation. But Andy, brocephus, we are not talking about decompression dives. We are talking about regular open water dives for a guy and his little girl. If she's got a VR3 strapped to her wrist and a set of doubles, then you're darn right she needs a long hose setup.
H2Andy
Contributor
well, even in OW diving, emergencies should be as easy to manage as possible. the long hose gives you that flexibility
Sas
Contributor
Twice in 232 dives. One with a standard hose, once with a long hose setup. It was quite clear to me which I found the superior method.
I have donated air a third time to a buddy where an OOA was imminent but it was not a true OOA as they asked me for air in time. This was with a standard hose setup.
As far as sharing air for extending dives, about three or four times. All with a long hose setup.
I agree as far as sharing air with your air hog buddy, but that violates every agencies protocol (that I am aware of) so I am not going to tell people to use a long hose for that reason. Can you elaborate a little bit about the two OOA, and why each one was different vis-a-vis the hose setups?
Sas
Contributor
Sure.
First: (around about my 50th dive): We were diving around a wreck at about 26-28m. We went inside (swiss cheese wreck, I know some people would not do this but this wreck has been penetrated for many many years without incident so I considered it safe and still do). As soon as we were inside buddy indicates OOA and starts pointing to his valve. I put him on my occy and turned on his valve which was nearly off (he was diving fine until this point so I can only assume he had been knocking into things). About ten minutes later he indicates OOA and I held out my reg (standard occy size), but he turned away and grabbed another diver's reg
I can only assume in hindsight he was narced, even though it is quite shallow but temperature was 13C and he used up his tank in about 16mins at this depth so his SAC must have been high. Perhaps these things exacerbated things. Eventually he took my gas and we ascended to a hang tank at 5m. He did a safety stop here and then went back on his own tank and shot rapidly to the surface - it appears he got a few breaths out of his own tank at this point. It was awkward to leave the wreck (despite large exits) and ascend with this setup. Not impossible and honestly I found it ok at the time but in hindsight I find it so much easier to use my current setup. Second (LOA not OOA, around dive 60): drift dive to about 14m with another buddy who was working hard to keep the line straight (we had about 6-8 divers on the line, all students). I kept telling him to stop finning so madly and I kept asking if he was ok but he had this wide eyed expression on his face and would not respond. I went over to check him and his air was very low (nearly on empty). Put him on my gas and we ascended. This was with a standard set up and it was very awkward as he was really not coping well, there was a strong current and we had to stay on the line and navigate around students that were all over the place. I had to pretty much hug him.
Third (around dive 100): me and my buddy (same as second situation) were doing a drift dive to collect scallops at around 14m. He ran out of air, basically I think he was distracted trying to fill his catch bag. I was on a long hose setup and donated my primary as he calmly requested it. We did not ascend immediately as I wanted to send up an SMB. Returned easily to the surface on my SMB and we were able to hang on to our scallop bag.
The second incident was what made me consider changing my setup and I am very glad I did. There were a lot of things done wrong on all of those dives by both me and my buddies (I should not assume people will check their air and so forth, and I probably should have responded earlier to buddies who didn't seem quite right). A long hose is just a tool to make a screwup easier to manage, doesn't fix the underlying problem of buddies with bad gas management, but it really has made things easier for me. I prefer to have this setup and I prefer other buddies to have it also but I would never make a big deal about it if someone didn't want to dive this setup.
I do not really care about agency protocol. There are a lot of protocols that I do not follow (I solo dive, for example) But I am safety conscious when diving. In all of these cases, they had plenty of air and we shared air at the start of the dive and switched when our tanks matched (i.e one person starts off with 100 bar in their tank, the other 200, and we share air at the start). I like that the long hose gives me this option if someone can't get a fill or wants to use up a half full tank. In no case would I share air to extend a dive with someone who did not have enough gas in their own tank to ascend safely.
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DevonDiver
N/A
I agree. Long hose is not the sole preserve of the technical cave or wreck diver.
Like many, many things, the use of long hose is a technical diving 'best practice' that translates very well for adoption within the recreational mainstream.
From my experience, having a long hose allows uncomplicated air-sharing and can reduce the stress and task-loading of an emergency situation. It provides a higher degree of ease, personal space and more flexible options for emergency ascents.
If taught to use the system properly (including the deployment and stowage of long hose), then it has some serious benefits for any recreational diver.
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