Long hose for a new diver

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...but, a new diver using standard BC and standard reg hoses, will be just barely OK for bouyancy control most of the time, with the BC in normal operation....give them the issue of controling bouyancy from their air source, while bumping into another diver and having difficulty swimming, and this is just one more additional stress they don't need.

Dan,

I teach with the Rite Source, an OEM version of the Air2. My students don't have trouble with it. It is not designed for extended use and is not comfortable for extended use but it is appropriate for emergency use, even by new divers.

Two negative issues are:

  1. Your can't turn your head completely to the right while using it.
  2. You have to take it out of your mouth to vent gas from your BC (although I teach my students to reach up with the left hand and pull in the middle of the corrigated hose to activate the cable dump!).
These are acceptable limitation for an emergency device not intended to be used constantly.

Additionally, to your comment of seeing divers 'practice' with them, when I was a new diver using the TUSA version of the Air2, I'd switch to it to 'practice' it's use as I was swimming along in the middle of a dive. Since I wasn't 'sharing air' I doubt anyone ever noticed, but it made me proficient in its use.

Bruce
 
Dan, I'm still not sure I understand why you think the AirSource/Air2 isn't good for new divers. You mention that the primary 2nd state would be on a standard length hose -- BUT, and here is an important BUT, the standard length hose for such a 2nd stage is at least 36 inches BECAUSE it is the donated reg.

IF the LDS doesn't set the system up correctly, then yes, it becomes a very poor setup since the donated 2nd stage's hose isn't long enough to do an effective donation. BUT if/when it is set up correctly, there really shouldn't be any significant issue. Regarding venting the BC on ascent, don't forget, in addition to venting from the hose, one can also vent from any number of places on most BCs (not BP/Ws, but "standard" BCs).
 
I am contemplating going with long(er) hose system as I am switching to miflex hoses. I like the idea of having bit more distance in case of donation. For a single tank system, what lengths of hoses should I be looking at?
 
...As an aside. I was talking with my daughter after class. We decided that we'll also practice our mask skills, OOA skills, etc. after the safety stop of each dive.

:thumb: :thumb:

Excellent!

Sounds like you are going to have a lot of terrific, safe, and fun dives with your daughter!

Best wishes.
 
I am contemplating going with long(er) hose system as I am switching to miflex hoses. I like the idea of having bit more distance in case of donation. For a single tank system, what lengths of hoses should I be looking at?

For the set-ups I use in training we have 40" hoses on the primary, that being the 'known working' regulator that I teach students to donate. If you choose to donate your octo, then a 36" or 40" hose on that and a 26" hose (I believe it is) on the primary.

Bruce
 
I am contemplating going with long(er) hose system as I am switching to miflex hoses. I like the idea of having bit more distance in case of donation. For a single tank system, what lengths of hoses should I be looking at?

From Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers which is definitely worth the read later......

"Hoses
Divers should use high quality hoses to reduce the risk of hose rupture, and hoses should be replaced every several years or when they begin to show wear. All hoses should be fitted with strain relief to reduce the risk of kinking and failure. While under pressure, divers should periodically pull the protector aside to ensure that there are no leaks or impending failures. Long hoses typically range from 5 to 7' (1.5- 2m). Shallow open water divers who do not use a long hose commonly use a standard 32” (12.6cm) hose. Overhead divers should use a 7' hose. Open water divers who use a long hose often use a 5 or 6' hose, depending on their size and the use of a hip-mounted canister.10
hoseconfig-all.jpg
rhea_rb80-airshare098.jpg

Restrictive areas, like caves, often require that divers travel single file. This means that unless divers are equipped with a long hose second stage, in the event of a failure, they will be unable to effectively share air in such an environment. The use of the long hose was primarily designed to manage air-sharing problems in restrictive areas, and has been a standard feature of cave diving for many years. Anytime divers are forced to travel while air sharing, using the long hose is mandatory. Furthermore, divers facing decompression will use a long hose. Today, many open water divers also choose the long hose because of the comfort it provides during air-sharing situations. Properly trained and equipped divers often dive with a long hose; this allows them greater flexibility while diving. The backup regulator hose should come across the diver's shoulder, allowing the regulator to sit below the chin without the hose bulging to the side.
Diving in a shallow, open water environment allows a diver direct ascent to the surface, thereby reducing air-sharing complications. In this case, divers will sometimes use shorter primary regulator hoses, an acceptable practice in this environment. Obviously, such an event is only for emergencies. Divers ascending from SCUBA on a breath-hold must exhale during the ascent to prevent embolism. This technique should be practiced and discussed during open water training.
rhea_cayman-longhose0195.jpg
Power inflator hoses should run over the diver's left shoulder and be long enough to comfortably supply the power inflator, while not so long that they bulge out to either side. In turn, the inflator itself should be long enough that, with one hand controlling all maneuvers, a diver is able to easily reach his/her mouth, his/her dry suit inflation valve, and his/her nose; it should also be long enough that, if necessary, one could breathe out of it by simultaneously holding down both buttons.13 The inflator from the wings runs over the shoulder and through a small bungie attached with the left chest D-ring. This keeps the inflator where it can be located instantly. To provide additional redundancy when using two first stages, the inflator hose should always be run from the right post. This requirement is illustrated in the case of a diver's left post rolling off or breaking. If the inflator is run from the left post, the diver will simultaneously lose not only the use of the backup regulator around the neck but also the ability to inflate the BC. These two problems together could be inordinately compounded by an out-of-air situation in which a diver would not only be without the means of controlling his/her buoyancy but would also be deprived of the use of a third regulator (cf. note 7). In addition, the inflator mechanism itself should not be designed to fill rapidly; this allows one to manage a runaway inflation more effectively, should an inflator failure cause a continual addition of air. The pressure gauge hose should run from the diver's left post to the left hip D-ring, where it is attached by a stainless steel clip wire-tied to the pressure gauge. This pressure gauge does not need a protective boot, nor does it need to be in a console or in any other device that increases its size and/or entanglement potential. The hose should be short enough to stay out of the slipstream and long enough to allow for viewing of the gauge once it is unclipped from the D-ring....."
 
Yeah, you could always go with the GUE setup, it gives you a 500 hundred dollar (minimum) canister light around which to run that 55 dollar hose. I swear some people buy that setup just because it is expensive and makes you look cool. There's also plenty of doctors, lawyers, and other people with money to burn who drink that particular flavor of kool-aid. It seems like everyone wants to look like a tech diver these days. I have a full NTEC setup (Naui's version of the hogarthian rig), but I refuse to spend a ludricrous amount of money on a big flashlight, I'm not a cave diver. The 25 dollar one clipped to my harness works just fine. JMO.

Pretty much the octo hose (or secondary if you are a techie) is the most important one. The reason most people complain about sharing air with a regular setup is because plenty of manufacturers make octo hoses in 32-36 inches, which is in my estimation inadequate. I have a 40" octo hose on my DM rig, and it works great. It actually stowes easier than a 32-36" hose because it likes to stay under your right arm.

Still, to each his own. Take an equipment class from a shop and learn how to change our own hoses. Buy a setup for a long hose and a setup for open water diving if that's your thing.

I think the bottom line is that if you have a regulator setup that is safe, you'll be fine. You aren't going to die in open water diving if you have standard hoses, just like you aren't going to die in open water diving with a long hose. It's simply just preference, or obeying what you are told if your agency mandates it. I think sometimes this board takes on a life of its own, and it tends to polarize people. Most hose setups work just fine, if you are not horribly uncomfortable with the one you have, it probably works fine too. Recreational diving is supposed to be fun, right? Remember why you decided to spend like 800 bucks to learn it.
 
I am contemplating going with long(er) hose system as I am switching to miflex hoses. I like the idea of having bit more distance in case of donation. For a single tank system, what lengths of hoses should I be looking at?

I'm personally a big fan of the long hose primary. With a single tank config, my primary is on a 5' hose. My secondary is on a shorter hose, though I cannot tell you the length.

I route my long hose under my left arm, across my chest, around the back of my head, over my right shoulder to my mouth. My secondary is on a bungee and comes over my right shoulder. You just need to take a moment before you dive and make sure you haven't crossed your hoses in case you really do need to donate them.
 
Yeah, you could always go with the GUE setup, it gives you a 500 hundred dollar (minimum) canister light around which to run that 55 dollar hose. I swear some people buy that setup just because it is expensive and makes you look cool. There's also plenty of doctors, lawyers, and other people with money to burn who drink that particular flavor of kool-aid. It seems like everyone wants to look like a tech diver these days. I have a full NTEC setup (Naui's version of the hogarthian rig), but I refuse to spend a ludricrous amount of money on a big flashlight, I'm not a cave diver. The 25 dollar one clipped to my harness works just fine. JMO.
A few posts ago I covered my recomendation for a recreational diver--that instead of a canister light, he use a pocket to route the hose under, or a knife scabard...I imagine these items do not fall into the "money to burn category" for you. To use a long hose, you really do want to route it down and under at the right side of the waist, so something needs to be there. it would be nice if this something was useful to you:)

Pretty much the octo hose (or secondary if you are a techie) is the most important one. The reason most people complain about sharing air with a regular setup is because plenty of manufacturers make octo hoses in 32-36 inches, which is in my estimation inadequate. I have a 40" octo hose on my DM rig, and it works great. It actually stowes easier than a 32-36" hose because it likes to stay under your right arm.
Here I would not agree....I have seen far too many divers have trouble trying to "unstow" their octo. The 7 foot long hose primary routed down the right, and then around and up to your mouth, is taught to the body, very comfortable, and instantly releases should donation need to occur.
See DIR Part 2 or

dir1.jpg
2. A better way exists to assist another diver, one that is not yet implemented by most training agencies. This is the concept of the "Long Hose". It should be your primary regulator, and it wraps once around your neck----it allows a rapid straight up and out deployment to an Out of Air Diver. At 4 to 7 feet long for open water use, it provides you with a good safety margin for reaching the other diver if they are in a small confined space, and once in the open, your control and swimming are not hampered by constantly bumping in to the other diver who is pulled to close by a short hose. You instantly switch to a short hose which hangs right under your chin, held by surgical tubing. In the buddy breathing scenario, the diver who is OOA, may typically be in great panic, unable to breath for much longer than they can stay calm---as tunnel vision closes in on them, you DO NOT want to chance fate by handing them a seco ndary that may not be working, or that is not purged, or that may take you an extra 4 seconds to deploy, and hand to them----this type of delay will have them reaching for the regulator in your mouth anyway. The long hose will place a reg in their mouth immediately, and they have room to become comfortable----they don't feel the hose may rip the regulator out of their mouth at any moment, by a sudden body motion that tightens up the short hose too much. And they will feel comfortably supported by a functional breathing system. They will be far more likely to calm down, and assist in the swim to the surface.
dir2.jpg
 
I route my long hose under my left arm, across my chest, around the back of my head, over my right shoulder to my mouth.

Hey P3D,

I'm having trouble envisioning how your routing goes; does this mean you have to clear your left shoulder and arm during a deploy? Do you have a picture of this setup?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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