An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[Trace Malinowski]

It pains me to have to agree with Jeff.

Yeah, guys, bad habit from trying to fill so many pages of BS in college. I'll work on it.

Gotta go dive.

 

[HenrikBP]

My dad died yesterday ...

I'm really sorry to hear that Trace. My condolences to you and yours.

The greatest risk to a solo diver is the problem that he can't solve alone. The greatest risk to a team diver is that your buddy is trying to not let you down on the days he'd rather not dive.

Outstanding point! That hit home really well with me.

Henrik

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Before, I jet, when teaching solo diving courses, I tell my students:

1. Unified team diving - best solution to diving. Two or more well-trained and highly capable divers who work together with standard procedures, gases and equipment configurations.

2. Solo diving - second best solution to diving. Diver knows what he or she is doing. No communication problems. No peer pressure. Decisions are left to a person's internal monologue. Greater risks that unified team because no help with navigation, nusances, and emergencies. Sidemount configuration is an example of a very good solo system. Diver must be ready to solve problems alone. No false sense of security. Independent and focused.

3. Loose team diving - worst way to dive. False sense of security. Divers at risk, but may not be able to adequately help one another. False sense of security leads to more aggressive diving that they might do if solo. This could mean deeper dives, longer dives, following a buddy into places one wouldn't otherwise go, often leads to inadequate reserve gas from lack of training. Cluster waiting to happen. "Who doesn't have a buddy? Okay, you two guys can buddy up!" Very poor way for the dive industry to create safety!

 

[RTodd]

Ann Marie, you have no clue how to mod the DIR forum. Normally, I wouldn't complain about selective editing since it is a huge pain. But, given that you completely stuffed this one up, Lamont closing the thread was the best way to handle the situation. Why are you going around the specific DIR mod?

 

[Kingpatzer]

Before, I jet, when teaching solo diving courses, I tell my students:

1. Unified team diving - best solution to diving. Two or more well-trained and highly capable divers who work together with standard procedures, gases and equipment configurations.

2. Solo diving - second best solution to diving . . .

3. Loose team diving - worst way to dive. . . . "Who doesn't have a buddy? Okay, you two guys can buddy up!" Very poor way for the dive industry to create safety!

Where do you place moderately trained divers, diving with a regular buddy who are very conscious of personal limitations, regularly work within both pool and regular dive sites on skills, including rescue skills, who plan their dives conservatively within their agencies training guidelines, and who do gas management planing?

I make no pretense to being as capable of people who have been diving longer or who have more advanced training than I. But the idea that the only alternative to a UTD team beyond a solo diver is to be poorly trained and ignorant strikes me as lacking some perspective.

Or do you not associate the term UTD with DIR?

 

[Ann Marie]

Ann Marie, you have no clue how to mod the DIR forum. Normally, I wouldn't complain about selective editing since it is a huge pain. But, given that you completely stuffed this one up, Lamont closing the thread was the best way to handle the situation. Why are you going around the specific DIR mod?

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I'll agree that I have very little knowledge about DIR specifically, I do understand, quite well in fact, the Terms of Service for ScubaBoard. I believe you were once a DIR Mod, correct? As such, you may remember that we have a specific set of guidelines we are to follow as well as a Modiquette. I'm not going to discuss Lamont 'handling' the situation because that is between him and me.

As an Advisor, I hesitate to moderate because it often leaves a thread disjointed and some members upset but when there are members reporting posts it is my responsibility to look at that thread. In doing so, I look at the whole thread not just the reported post because if your post was outside the guidelines of the TOS why should it stay while another's is deleted?

Why close the thread? Just because you and someone else thought it had run it's course? I think not. It's not ours to close, it belongs to the members of ScubaBoard. There was still some discussion occurring and if you feel that closing the thread was needed; than just unsubscribe from the thread and refrain from reading it.

I apologize to the other members in this thread for the interruption but felt it was important to address RTodd's question.

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[elan]

Where do you place moderately trained divers, diving with a regular buddy who are very conscious of personal limitations, regularly work within both pool and regular dive sites on skills, including rescue skills, who plan their dives conservatively within their agencies training guidelines, and who do gas management planing?

I make no pretense to being as capable of people who have been diving longer or who have more advanced training than I. But the idea that the only alternative to a UTD team beyond a solo diver is to be poorly trained and ignorant strikes me as lacking some perspective.

Or do you not associate the term UTD with DIR?

It sounds to me that his notion of unified team has nothing to do with either UTD agency nor with DIR. My guess is that by unified team he meant the group of divers that has established protocols be it DIR or anything else as well as they have good communication, know what they are doing plan the risks and follow their plans.
So your description falls into #1

 

[divad]

But the idea that the only alternative to a UTD team beyond a solo diver is to be poorly trained and ignorant ..............

Where did you get that idea? Or, more to the point, why did you project that idea onto what Trace said ?

 

[Trace Malinowski]

It sounds to me that his notion of unified team has nothing to do with either UTD agency nor with DIR. My guess is that by unified team he meant the group of divers that has established protocols be it DIR or anything else as well as they have good communication, know what they are doing plan the risks and follow their plans.
So your description falls into #1

Yes, exactly.

The BEST diving solution is completely unified teams like UTD and GUE.

Any divers who put effort into training together with whatever configurations they are diving may also be quite safe and capable.

There is a difference between a true "team" and two people just diving together.

 

[Gilldiver]

Yes, exactly.

The BEST diving solution is completely unified teams like UTD and GUE.

Any divers who put effort into training together with whatever configurations they are diving may also be quite safe and capable.

There is a difference between a true "team" and two people just diving together.

I don't post here in DIR land except on very specifc points, but this is one of them. The "team" discribed is hard to put together, and very hard to keep together over the long term.

Unless diving is your main job, time, family, work, lifestyles will pull most every team apart after 2 years or less, so if the "Team" is not constantly bringing in new bodies, it will fail over time. The worst would be a "team" that did a lot together for a year or so and then slacked off over time and still tried to pull off the big dive.