Long hose for a new diver

[Teamcasa]

The reason you would dive with a long hose, is that you "care" about your dive buddy, and expect at some time in the future, you will be doing an air share during a dive with a buddy. When this does happen, you would be far more comfortable and in control, breathing out of a bungied back up reg, and having your separate inflator hose for bouyancy control--you have used this every day of your diving, in exactly the same way as you would in the air share, so there is no increased stress from having it suddenly difficult at the time you need it to be easiest.

Having to breathe out of your air 2 equivalent device, means controlling bouyancy in a manner quite different from your normal diving, when you have to breathe out of it. Personally, I have tried these systems and found they offered no advantage worth mentioning, only disadvantages--of course, dive shops love to sell techno-junk for big bucks
Dan V

Hardly. The long hose main purpose is for sharing air in a confined dive space. Using a standard length hose in open water, does not automatically mean one does not care about their buddy, it just means that there is little value in using a long hose when diving in open water.

One man's techno-junk is another man's choice in octo. No more, no less.

 

[DCBC]

I'm not sure I get your point here. What would the benefit of a shorter hose have been?

Close personal eye-to-eye contact instills confidence and reduces the incidence of panic. The physical restriction of a piece of equipment can aid or restrict this process.

 

[rongoodman]

You can always shorten a long hose, by not releasing it from under your can light or just holding a loop in your hand, but if you want the space, you can't lengthen a short one.

 

[mksmith713]

Asking questions on Scubaboard is to diving what dirty HBO shows are to real sex.

True True

 

[Kingpatzer]

You can always shorten a long hose, by not releasing it from under your can light or just holding a loop in your hand, but if you want the space, you can't lengthen a short one.

Asking newly certified OW divers to make those sorts of judgment calls when dealing with what already will be a highly stressful situation is task loading for task loading's sake.

The point of the OW configuration is that it helps reduce stress on the diver with air by reducing the possibility that their reg is yanked out of their mouth by a near-panic buddy. It doesn't stop it, of course, but it lessens the chance somewhat.

Like or loath current OW training standards, it should be remembered that the average recreational diver is not going to have a lot of experience with losing their reg under water, so having their primary removed suddenly and with little or no warning (which is more likely with a long hose configuration than with a standard recreational configuration) is much more likely to make a bad situation worse.

Now, if the recreational diver in question practices OOA drills diligently, and always dives with a buddy familiar with the process and who is equally diligent in practicing OOA drills, then it's much less of a problem. But again, this is not the case for the average diver.

The "standards" for recreational divers stem from the low level of training received and the generally low level of experience they posses.

That said, people who frequent these boards tend towards being the more serious divers who are more willing to practice safety drills and to dive more frequently than average. This self-selection process makes providing a strict recommendation much more difficult. But even so, I would suggest that long hose drills should be something that slightly more experienced divers begin working on, after having time to become more comfortable in the water and to develop a greater level of ease in dealing with minor problems (such as a lost reg).

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[DCBC]

You can always shorten a long hose, by not releasing it from under your can light or just holding a loop in your hand, but if you want the space, you can't lengthen a short one.

I can't comment on what's reasonable for you to do, as I don't understand your reaction to fear, narcosis and how you deal with an emergency. I do however think it's fair to say that each situation is different and should be based upon its own merits.

For the situation that I described, this occurred while wreck diving in Bonaire at a depth of 190 feet on air (I'm commercially cleared on air to 70 meters). The diver I assisted was not my Buddy; his partner was narced and didn't respond to the situation and was being led to the decompression stop by my Buddy (both "rescued" divers were PADI Instructors, that shouldn't have been on the dive because of their lack of deep diving experience). Another team came to my assistance to move the paniced diver that I was assisting, freeing me to move on to the decompression stop.

I was unable to shorten the length of the hose by simply looping it in my hand. Both hands were in use at the time.

A compressed air OOS often occurs at depth where both the diver and rescuer may be exposed to narcosis. I'm sure it's the intent of everyone to respond to the situation in the best way possible, but our efficiency is often impeded by situations beyond our control. Any clip or release that would prevent full deployment of a second stage, may impede safety at depth. This is one major reason for me adopting a minimalist approach.

 

[ligersandtions]

This is the newest thread I could find that is on topic with a question I have, but I haven't seen this exact proposal anywhere on ScubaBoard...

For both financial considerations as well as personal preference, I am considering using a long hose in combination with an Air2-type octo-inflator device. In other words, I would use a 5' or 7' hose to simplify donating the primary, but I would like to use an integrated octo-inflator instead of a bungied backup.

Without re-igniting the anti-Air2 flames, are there any reasons why this wouldn't work?

While I'm not a fan of the Air2, if you're committed to diving with it (you already have a BC with the Air2 on it, you have already decided on a BC that has it installed, or whatever the situation might be), I think diving with the long hose is a fantastic option!

Diving with the long hose gives you better options for sharing air than a standard length hose. While it seems that a number of people are convinced that being in very close proximity while sharing air is the best, they seem not to grasp the concept that just because you have 7' of hose doesn't mean you have to be 7' away from one another....you have that option, but it is not a requirement.

I'm not sure what the best way of routing the long hose is on an traditional BC without a can light, but you may consider the 5' hose just so you don't have so much extra slack, but you still have the option to share air from a distance. Either way, it's a good option -- I'm curious how long you will dive the Air2 though, as I do think the bungeed back-up is a better option than the Air2 (but this is your decision and I will respect your "don't bring up all the arguments" request).

 

[DCBC]

While it seems that a number of people are convinced that being in very close proximity while sharing air is the best, they seem not to grasp the concept that just because you have 7' of hose doesn't mean you have to be 7' away from one another....you have that option, but it is not a requirement.

If you were in panic and tried to lead me with a standard hose, compared to if I was in panic and had your 7 ft hose, you'd soon see a big difference! "People don't seem to grasp the concept" that people are not always warm, fuzzy and cooperative in an emergency situation. Especially if there are other factors affecting the diver's condition.

 

[ligersandtions]

If you were in panic and tried to lead me with a standard hose, compared to if I was in panic and had your 7 ft hose, you'd soon see a big difference! "People don't seem to grasp the concept" that people are not always warm, fuzzy and cooperative in an emergency situation. Especially if there are other factors affecting the diver's condition.

So, tell me, how is it different with a standard hose? If someone is panicked and hell-bent on taking me to the surface, it's not going to make a difference which length of hose he is breathing off of....I'm either going to be able to control it or I'm not, but just because they have an extra couple feet of hose (that I've got looped up and am holding in my hand while maintaining contact with him) doesn't mean there's going to be a different outcome.

People aren't always warm, fuzzy, or cooperative....but what does your standard hose do to control the situation that I can't do with my 7' hose?

 

[Teamcasa]

That said, people who frequent these boards tend towards being the more serious divers who are more willing to practice safety drills and to dive more frequently than average. This self-selection process makes providing a strict recommendation much more difficult. But even so, I would suggest that long hose drills should be something that slightly more experienced divers begin working on, after having time to become more comfortable in the water and to develop a greater level of ease in dealing with minor problems (such as a lost reg).

Just my thoughts anyway.

This is a good point.
The diver that even knows what a long hose is, probably has more experience than most of the open water or vacation diver. Many times a solution or suggestion is offered by a diver that has had additional training, dives year round, very comfortable in their gear and can't even fathom the thought of diving in any other fashion.

Having had to share air with a truly panicked recreational diver, I'm comfortable recommending a standard hose length/conventional octo configuration.