One difference is dealing with the victim looking at his weight belt or being violently kicked in the head by his legs. Try both and your question will be answered.
Long hose for a new diver
- Thread starter jtpwils
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
One difference is dealing with the victim looking at his weight belt or being violently kicked in the head by his legs. Try both and your question will be answered.
That could be a very good reason to stay away from the long hose for most divers. Although a long hose stows very cleanly with a backplate/hog harness and a can light, I'm not sure it would fare so well with a traditional BC.
Not all BCs have correctly positioned D-rings either. If having a long hose causes you to loose access to your right pocket, can't be clipped properly, and gets in the way of your lower purge valve (some BCs have it on the right) - it's just not worth it.
(Yeah for thread necromancy!)
ligersandtions
Contributor
I don't see it....are you assuming that because I'm sharing air that my buoyancy has gone to crap and I can't manage to keep my head away from his knees/feet just because I have the long hose? Sharing air means we're at the same depth....and if he's thrashing about, getting into a "bear hug" position that I'd be in with a standard length hose is still an option....my head/face/insert body part here does not need to be in the way just because I have a long hose.
You have answered your own question.
With the long hose and a panicked diver, both of your hands are tied up. With a standard Octo, you have a tight hold on the diver and the other hand free to manage things like buoyancy control, your mask being knocked off, their weights and BC.
KingP wrote (apparently in opposition to having a "long hose" with an Air2 type system)
According to my LDS owner, more than 50% of the OW rigs he sells use the Air2 type system so this IS an issue for many new OW divers. The only question that should be considered is "How long should the hose be on the primary" when you have the combo-inflator system.
And I believe the answer is: "Longer than a standard primary hose." For example, last night I worked with 3 OW students who were trying out their brand new BCs, Regs, Dry suits, 'Puters (side comment, I figured Dad had just dropped about $20K for all the gear!) and all were using the Air2 system -- and all had "standard length" hoses on their 2nd stages -- NOT "octo length" hoses! They all found that having "standard length" hoses was a true PITA and when they did the same exercise with me, using a 40" hose they found air sharing much easier (I also have an AirSource system on my pool BC).
Do they need a 7 or 5 foot hose? No, although they might find the 5 footer useful after they gain some experience. Did they find the 26 inch hose useful? NO WAY!
Since this IS the regulator they donate, they really do need a "longer" hose than the norm and I believe the 36" hose (which I understand is a standard Octo length, although please feel free to correct me) works well but I prefer the slightly larger 40 inch hose for the routing.
So all remember, the OP, and those who use this system, DO NEED longer hoses than "standard" but how long, why it really depends on how much experience they acrue.
----------------
BTW, TeamC, why do you say my hands would be tied up if I had a long hose provided to a panicked diver? Even with a total Hog rig/7 foot hose, I'd just hand off my primary, pick up my secondary and then have both hands free to calm/fend off (as the case may be) the diver. I ain't throwing the reg at him, I'm handing it off and so I can then grab him with my right hand if required. I can also hold him at arm's length if necessary which I may well NOT be able to do with the shorter "standard" Octo hose. I see LOTS of downsides to the short hose and none to the long(er) hose whether I'm a newbie or an experience technical diver.
BTW, I learned this lesson very early on when trying to do an airshare with my buddy using the short hose and the AirSource. We were so close neither of us could even kick to go up!
Remember, the OP has already decided that he will donate his primary regulator should that become an issue because he has opted for the Air2 combo-inflator. So your concern is irrelevant to the question asked.
According to my LDS owner, more than 50% of the OW rigs he sells use the Air2 type system so this IS an issue for many new OW divers. The only question that should be considered is "How long should the hose be on the primary" when you have the combo-inflator system.
And I believe the answer is: "Longer than a standard primary hose." For example, last night I worked with 3 OW students who were trying out their brand new BCs, Regs, Dry suits, 'Puters (side comment, I figured Dad had just dropped about $20K for all the gear!) and all were using the Air2 system -- and all had "standard length" hoses on their 2nd stages -- NOT "octo length" hoses! They all found that having "standard length" hoses was a true PITA and when they did the same exercise with me, using a 40" hose they found air sharing much easier (I also have an AirSource system on my pool BC).
Do they need a 7 or 5 foot hose? No, although they might find the 5 footer useful after they gain some experience. Did they find the 26 inch hose useful? NO WAY!
Since this IS the regulator they donate, they really do need a "longer" hose than the norm and I believe the 36" hose (which I understand is a standard Octo length, although please feel free to correct me) works well but I prefer the slightly larger 40 inch hose for the routing.
So all remember, the OP, and those who use this system, DO NEED longer hoses than "standard" but how long, why it really depends on how much experience they acrue.
----------------
BTW, TeamC, why do you say my hands would be tied up if I had a long hose provided to a panicked diver? Even with a total Hog rig/7 foot hose, I'd just hand off my primary, pick up my secondary and then have both hands free to calm/fend off (as the case may be) the diver. I ain't throwing the reg at him, I'm handing it off and so I can then grab him with my right hand if required. I can also hold him at arm's length if necessary which I may well NOT be able to do with the shorter "standard" Octo hose. I see LOTS of downsides to the short hose and none to the long(er) hose whether I'm a newbie or an experience technical diver.
BTW, I learned this lesson very early on when trying to do an airshare with my buddy using the short hose and the AirSource. We were so close neither of us could even kick to go up!
Last edited:
I don't understand this comment at all. If I donate my primary regulator, I have the choice to deploy only the loop around my neck (about the length of an octo hose) or to deploy the full length of the hose (7'). I also have the option of grabbing the BC of the other diver, just as I was taught in OW -- or to deploy more hose and give the person some freedom of movement, if they are clearly coping well. I don't NEED to hold any hose in my hand -- either hand -- because if I don't want the full hose out, I don't put it out there. Should I make a mistake and do so, I STILL have the option of holding onto the OOA diver, and if we are somewhere where entanglement in the long hose is a problem (and I certainly hope that I'm not inside a wreck or a cave with an OOA, panicked diver) I can loop the extra up into the hand that's holding the BC.
I just don't see the issue here.
- Messages
- 1,938
- Reaction score
- 168
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
True enough.
OK, here is the issue again. If, when faced with a panicked, OOA recreational diver, you are probably not in a tight cave or inside some wreck buddied up with other highly trained divers right? You are more than likely just diving a site that is more conducive to the OW diver.
So, when that OOA diver comes up to you with their eyes bugging out like a stomped-on bullfrog, you have a split second decision to make. Let them grab your primary or push back and give them your octo. Either way, they are going to try and bolt if they don't get a breath right now.
If they opt for the grab and bolt, you are now faced with a decision. Go with them and try to arrest to ascent or jerk the hose from their mouth. If they have your long hose, they are just that much further away in the second or two that it takes for you to decide how you are going to fully deploy, partially deploy and look down to get your own reg.
With a conventional octo setup, as soon as you spot the panicked diver, you grab your octo and offer it. If they reach for your primary, fine - grab hold of them and you use the octo. Either way, you have more control.
OTOH, Two divers that have drilled and practiced OOA situations routinely, should one suddenly find themselves OOA, the process goes pretty smoothly the hose length simply does not matter.
So, when that OOA diver comes up to you with their eyes bugging out like a stomped-on bullfrog, you have a split second decision to make. Let them grab your primary or push back and give them your octo. Either way, they are going to try and bolt if they don't get a breath right now.
If they opt for the grab and bolt, you are now faced with a decision. Go with them and try to arrest to ascent or jerk the hose from their mouth. If they have your long hose, they are just that much further away in the second or two that it takes for you to decide how you are going to fully deploy, partially deploy and look down to get your own reg.
With a conventional octo setup, as soon as you spot the panicked diver, you grab your octo and offer it. If they reach for your primary, fine - grab hold of them and you use the octo. Either way, you have more control.
OTOH, Two divers that have drilled and practiced OOA situations routinely, should one suddenly find themselves OOA, the process goes pretty smoothly the hose length simply does not matter.
I have a 7' Miflex hose. Because of its inherent flexibility it is no problem to use with a jacket style BCD. I normally tuck the excess length of it between two bungee cords around the tank, but I have also scrunched it up and stuffed it into a (velcro) pocket on my BCD. So long as the second stage is accessible and it will pull free, you can't go too far wrong.
I don't think this is an accurate characterization of events. Why do you attribute significant extra time to deploying the long hose, figuring out whether to fully deploy, and finding the bungeed backup, but no time to finding and deploying the octo? A long-hose deploy is FAST, and the backup can be in your mouth (courtesy of having two hands) before the primary reaches the OOG diver.
Also, it takes time to fully deploy, and long-hose divers are often taught to wait 5 seconds or more to calm the OOG diver and assess the situation before fully deploying and cleaning up your kit. If an OOG diver grabs your primary and bolts, the long hose is NOT going to be fully deployed, and the hose length will be effectively as short as a standard octo. So I just don't see this as a realistic comparison of events.
Similar threads
