Long hose for a new diver

[fisheater]

When I donated my primary in a real OOG situation, I was still using a standard length reg hose and an integrated octo. (I've since gone to the long hose and bungied octo.)

It took no time at all to offer up my primary. As soon as my buddy spit out his reg, my reg was in his face. It took no more than two seconds for me to go to my integrated octo.

I can't imagine taking as little time to grab and deploy a conventional octo, especially as I had a huge dive slate and a 100' survey reel clipped to my chest at the time. I would have to have sorted out that gear to reach it.

 

[Teamcasa]

I don't think this is an accurate characterization of events..

This is the "New Divers and Those Considering Diving" forum and the question was "Long Hose for a new diver". I was not, did not nor try to imply that a well trained, skilled long hose diver was going to have an issue.

 

[ligersandtions]

This is the "New Divers and Those Considering Diving" forum and the question was "Long Hose for a new diver". I was not, did not nor try to imply that a well trained, skilled long hose diver was going to have an issue.

While that's true, not one of us long hose divers said to the OP, "Yeah, get a long hose and go!" Most, if not all, of us said something to the effect of "a long hose is a great option but do find a mentor to show you some the the tricky things that will mess you up if you don't know..."

A new diver (or one considering diving) should be aware of the options and given the opportunity to try out different configurations than what is taught in a basic OW class if they are interested. FWIW, I know (and dive with) two new divers who were taught the long hose, bungeed back-up way and both of them would be more than competent to share air in an emergency. There's no reason to think that they are any more special, talented, gifted, whatever than any other new OW diver....the long hose skills can easily be taught to the new diver level.

 

[Gombessa]

This is the "New Divers and Those Considering Diving" forum and the question was "Long Hose for a new diver". I was not, did not nor try to imply that a well trained, skilled long hose diver was going to have an issue.

But the scenarios you presented imply a double-standard. If on a "regular" setup an OOG diver grabs your primary, just use your octo and be done with it? But that doesn't apply to a long hose diver (either new or experienced)? And whether you're new or experienced, the routing remains the same - there's no panic-and-bolt problem because the majority of the length of the hose will be stowed. If you're going to allow a diver to follow protocol in one situation, you should allow them to follow protocol in the other, too.

 

[Teamcasa]

Fair enough, but the main reason for using a long hose precludes the fact that new divers should/could/would be using them.

Long hoses were/are designed for in-line air sharing in a confined space. While they, as many of you have pointed out, will work well in open water, the long hose just is not needed in open water.

Nicole, I would agree that if a competent person is trained from the get-go by an instructor versed in technical diving and is willing to spend the extra effort to drill and practice the many of the tenants associated with that type of diving, most will do just fine. However, I know your path to diving took you through the same basic PADI courses that most new divers are exposed to. Can you imagine, with the instructors you had, adding the long hose deployment and drills as well?

It's always about the training and experience, right?

While that's true, not one of us long hose divers said to the OP, "Yeah, get a long hose and go!" Most, if not all, of us said something to the effect of "a long hose is a great option but do find a mentor to show you some the the tricky things that will mess you up if you don't know..."

A new diver (or one considering diving) should be aware of the options and given the opportunity to try out different configurations than what is taught in a basic OW class if they are interested. FWIW, I know (and dive with) two new divers who were taught the long hose, bungeed back-up way and both of them would be more than competent to share air in an emergency. There's no reason to think that they are any more special, talented, gifted, whatever than any other new OW diver....the long hose skills can easily be taught to the new diver level.

But the scenarios you presented imply a double-standard. If on a "regular" setup an OOG diver grabs your primary, just use your octo and be done with it? But that doesn't apply to a long hose diver (either new or experienced)? And whether you're new or experienced, the routing remains the same - there's no panic-and-bolt problem because the majority of the length of the hose will be stowed. If you're going to allow a diver to follow protocol in one situation, you should allow them to follow protocol in the other, too.

 

[DCBC]

Firstly I have to ask: "What is the advantage of having a long hose on your secondary, if you are giving the other diver your primary???"

When the longer hoses were originally integrated, they had the specific purpose of being used by the other diver (not you), in a specific circumstance i.e. confined spaces (wreck and caved diving), where the shorter hose would not allow a "follow me exit" from the confined space (it made sense).

Why is it that some people try to adapt a specific piece of diving equipment for a purpose for which it was not intended and argue its advantages (failing to see the shortcomings in an openwater situation)?

Obviously a redundant 2nd stage has personal advantages, but if the diver really wished to have redundancy they would be equipped with two separate regulators (now used for penetration diving). An argument can be made that two regs are better than one, even for shallow openwater diving, but is this reasonable? I think not.

I cannot help but see some confusion in openwater divers using confined space diving equipment that they don't need. I can understand why they might think it's more comfortable, but because the hose can be longer doesn't mean it should be. Some just think it looks cool and like to add accessories.

People dive with the equipment they like, but to put this in context a new diver does not require a longer hose for his/her octopus reg, nor a totally redundant system. Perhaps in a few years, but not now...

 

[Gombessa]

While they, as many of you have pointed out, will work well in open water, the long hose just is not needed in open water.

I don't think they're needed either, from an absolute perspective. You just need to get gas to an OOG diver and safety get to the surface, and that can be done with a number of setups, and the standard octo setup is just fine for the job.

Especially for newer divers or those who have never seen the configuration, a long hose has distinct advantages and disadvantages. I believe the numerous advantages, especially with proper training, vastly outweigh the disadvantages (which is why I use a long-hose), but I've always advised newer divers to not simply switch to a long hose without having someone experienced in its use go through the proper procedures and common hiccups one often faces when starting to use it.

 

[ligersandtions]

Nicole, I would agree that if a competent person is trained from the get-go by an instructor versed in technical diving and is willing to spend the extra effort to drill and practice the many of the tenants associated with that type of diving, most will do just fine. However, I know your path to diving took you through the same basic PADI courses that most new divers are exposed to. Can you imagine, with the instructors you had, adding the long hose deployment and drills as well?

It's always about the training and experience, right?

The instructors I had would not have had the first clue about what a long hose was or how to use one (well, at least not the main instructor....one of them I'm fairly certain knows all about it). I agree that a new diver should not jump into using a long hose without some knowledge of it.

After my OW and AOW classes were done, I moved to the long hose, bungeed back-up. I had read about how to route hoses properly, how to do an air share, and what things were likely to mess me up (putting my necklace on after I routed the long hose, forgetting to take the necklace off when I went to take my rig off)....but more importantly, I found some experienced divers and talked with them. I watched them, I picked their brains, and I came out better for it.

The OP sounds like he would be willing to put in the time to learn the pertinent information. For him, I think going to a long hose is a good option. For someone who's not willing to do the research, think about the options....but wants to just look cool cause they have a "tech" rig, I would advise them to either put in the time and effort or to go with what they were taught.

Firstly I have to ask: "What is the advantage of having a long hose on your secondary, if you are giving the other diver your primary???"

I don't know if this is a typo on your part or if you really haven't the slightest clue what we're talking about in this thread....but the long hose goes on your primary regulator (the one you give away in an OOA emergency) and your back-up goes on a 22" hose with a bungeed necklace, where your back-up regulator sits under your chin for easy access (so you have something to breathe after you give your long hose away in an OOA emergency).

 

[Teamcasa]

... vastly outweigh the disadvantages...

What specific disadvantages does standard length hose have in the open water?

 

[danvolker]

What specific disadvantages does standard length hose have in the open water?

How about the typical new diver scenario, where with standard length octo, they are so close to each other that they are not swimming smoothly, and often impeding each other's kicks...this will create stress in some divers that would be easily avoided by the comfortable swimming separation possible with a 7 foot primary as the donated reg.

While you might suggest that all they need to do is to go staight up, there is often some swimming that needs to occur. Not to mention they must get to the boat...or to the shore.

This thread was from a new diver interested in a long hose set up, for good reasons....why is it so threatening to the short hose crowd?

Dan V