Long hose for a new diver

[Gombessa]

Now you are a sporting a 7 ft hose and using the s word this reflects badly on the DIR community because when they see you using the s word they think you speaking as a DIR guy!

Yep, nowadays I think the only people bringing up that word are non-DIR divers trying to attribute things to DIR.

 

[DCBC]

BCDC, a NAUI Course Director (that does mean he is a teacher of teachers, does it not?) wrote BUT, please sir, re-read the OP's post because he is NOT one of the students to whom you refer. He HAD DECIDED that he will donate his primary BECAUSE he has chosen the Air2 reg/inflator combo. (Or do you believe that this configuration is such that he donates his Air2?-- If so, PLEASE get some more training on the use of this "special and unique" equipment.) But I digress. Anyway, since he has already decided, and his choice of gear requires, he donate his primary reg, then yes, even you must agree he needs a "longer than standard" hose on his primary second stage. If I recall correctly, you even state a 40 inch hose is an appropriate length FOR THE SECOND STAGE THAT IS DONATED -- which his will be.

PLEASE, REMEMBER, the OP has already decided NOT to have the "traditional octo setup" and thus you need to rethink (thinking divers, remember?) your advice.

Although I'm still learning, I have had quite a bit of training in the use of "special and unique" equipment; and yes, I have taught and certified Instructors.

You are correct in pointing out; that I had lost sight of the OPs original question and like so many others, got involved in a discussion with others on this thread. My apologies.

 

[DCBC]

The "Basic Scuba" answer is to not dive narc'ed. Just because you are "commercially cleared" doesn't make it smart.

John, you are absolutely correct in saying that the "Basic SCUBA" answer is not to dive narced. I am however not a basic diver and have made my living in-dealing with the effects of P2 on my body. In the discussion I used a personal example which I hoped would describe the environment faced by some out-of-air divers. Clearly you have never experienced narcosis and hopefully you will not find yourself in this situation with an OOA Buddy. If ever you do, I'm confident that my previous post will have new meaning.

 

[John_B]

John, you are absolutely correct in saying that the "Basic SCUBA" answer is not to dive narced. I am however not a basic diver and have made my living in-dealing with the effects of P2 on my body. In the discussion I used a personal example which I hoped would describe the environment faced by some out-of-air divers. Clearly you have never experienced narcosis and hopefully you will not find yourself in this situation with an OOA Buddy. If ever you do, I'm confident that my previous post will have new meaning.

Yes, I've been narc'ed (n.b. it was part of the deep dive portion of my AOW training). No, I prefer to not dive with my brain in a fog. YMMV.

If I was going to dive deeper than the MOD of 32% nitrox, I'd take some tech courses (from these guys) and do it on trimix where I could maintain a clear head underwater.

And I wouldn't have left my buddy/team member in the first place.

OTOH, this is the SB equivalent of "Basic Scuba", so the correct answer is to dive within the limits of your training: usually 60'/18m for new divers.

 

[DCBC]

If I was going to dive deeper than the MOD of 32% nitrox, I'd take some tech courses and do it on trimix where I could maintain a clear head underwater.

And I wouldn't have left my buddy/team member in the first place.

Well John, I would have preferred Heliox myself, but air was the only gas available at the time. As to deep diving emergency techniques, what experience do you have to suggest what I did was incorrect?

 

[Clanggedin]

Back to the OP... I took my OW cert with their gear, and switched to long hose my first dive out of class. I spent some time making sure I can deploy the reg quickly and I still do here and there. Some instructor may want you to use the short hose so you know how to do it if you are anyplace where you will be renting gear. You can learn long hose after your cert.

 

[danvolker]

Well John, I would have preferred Heliox myself, but air was the only gas available at the time. As to deep diving emergency techniques, what experience do you have to suggest what I did was incorrect?

DCBC,
George Irvine, Bill Mee and I did hundreds of dives in the early 90's on air, in the 250 to 290 ft range, for our deep shipwreck and deep reef dives off of Palm beach, fl. Each of us was lucky, as many other deep air divers of that era in diving, died like flies. Back then, there really was no availability of an alternative to air...And until George learned enough about trimix for us to switch to this, we would believe "the adventure was worth the risk of air". After we began using trimix, no amount of adventure potential would get us to dive air on our deep dives.

We could try to say we had better buddy techniques, better skills, and that we had good resistance to losing control from narcosis---but the most obvious truth is that we were very lucky.
When we began diving trimix on the same wrecks and deep reefs we had done previously on air, these appeared to be entirely different dives. We quickly realized that diving air at tech diving depths, was/is one of the stupidest things we had ever done, and today, we would NEVER suggest that any diver should attempt to train for deep air, or ever dive deep air just because there was no trimix around....

Training for deep air is very much like chugging a bottle of Tequilla, and then practicing your high speed driving techniques out on the Interstate and on city streets--some people can even get to drive with slightly less obvious impairment with practice, after they do this enough times...but few would suggest this is smart behavior.

As far as your comments about the original use of long hose for buddies, the coiled up/stowed long hose octopus caused so many clustr*****s and deaths, I am surprised you would want to claim this had a worthwhile place in the history of tech diving. Perhaps I read into this something that you did not mean --as I gather from your dive history that you are well aware of how many poor configurations existed back in the early and mid 90's, and how personal preference led to many deaths.

If this post had been on an advanced diver sub forum, I would have ignored it.....Because this is on "New Divers and those considering Diving", I did not want New divers reading the thread and interpreting it to mean that they should consider pushing themselves/training to go deep on air....it is entirely the wrong goal, and the wrong mindset.

DanV

 

[matt_w]

A diver should not be surprised by an OOA situation. Good communication with your Buddy prevents this. It's regulator problems that can't be unforseen.

I use a standard length hose for my primary 2nd stage (a long hose isn't needed and could be a hazard) and utilize a second regulator for a back-up on a long hose that's available to give my buddy. Students are taught NOT to give away the primary 2nd stage to another diver in an emergency; the secondary is there for that purpose. I train divers to buddy breath on one 2nd stage & by utilizing the secondary octopus for sharing air. The diver should be aware of the situation and hand the secondary octopus to the diver in-need.

The octopus secondary is often a different color (yellow) and is for use as a secondary and not a primary air-source for the diver. Hose lengths of 27"-32" are common for a recreational primary second stage and 40" is common for the octopus hose, to be used as back-up and OOA scenarios.

It seems like you have it the other way around. This is however a suggested method for DIR enthusiasts, but it's not followed by the industry at large. Look at the PADI advertisement at the top of this page ("perhaps it's you that really hasn't the slightest clue about what we're talking about in this thread....").

The original poster did in fact ask about a long hose configuration, with the primary on a long hose and the secondary on a necklace (might want to read the OP), that is what this thread is about.

I would only recommend a long hose configuration to a student learning from an instructor willing and able to teach them to dive it. Showing up to class wanting to learn diving on a longhose in a class where everyone else is in a configuration very well described in the post I quoted, will lead to confusion for everyone. There is plenty of time to find an instructor or mentor to work with you on a long hose configuration when your done with OW. Alternatively, find an instructor that teaches OW that way. They are a bit rare, but do exist.

Edit: not sure how I landed here, sorry to dig up the OLD post...would likely delete it if I could...

 

[knowone]

Lonely.

 

[DevonDiver]