Close Call in Bali - know your DM and Dive Operator very well

[wilde100]

I'm troubled by Veron's post on his experience.
His dive group continued diving despite an inability to communicate with the DM properly - e.g. converting PSI to bar. It seems that a simple pre dive screening is all that was done. You correctly mentioned chamber and hospital. Did you also consider first aid kit, emergency O2 supply etc?

Both the divers and DM failed to communicate expectations in managing low air. As a novice diver I was freaked out that my DM / instructor continued the dive when I signaled 50bar. As a more experienced diver, I now realize she might have already been leading me back to the boat to do a safety stop in calmer / safer conditions.

Briefings in places like Bali and other dive locations are always open to criticisms of "inadequate". Divers need to be aware that your local DMs may have language issues in communicating fluently and extensively in English. Their advice that "currents may be strong" should always be taken as the strongest warning that this is a challenging dive. If you do not understand "strong" or understand what you need to do to manage diving in strong currents, it is your personal responsibility to ask and clarify. While the captain and DM may recommend the dive site based on your feedback, it is ultimately the diver who understands his own fitness and capabilities best in deciding whether to step into the water.

My tone of reply may sound harsh, but I am quite annoyed by Veron's subtle insinuations that the DMs were at fault or at least contributed to the poor experience he had.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I'm troubled by Veron's post on his experience.
His dive group continued diving despite an inability to communicate with the DM properly - e.g. converting PSI to bar. It seems that a simple pre dive screening is all that was done. You correctly mentioned chamber and hospital. Did you also consider first aid kit, emergency O2 supply etc?

Both the divers and DM failed to communicate expectations in managing low air. As a novice diver I was freaked out that my DM / instructor continued the dive when I signaled 50bar. As a more experienced diver, I now realize she might have already been leading me back to the boat to do a safety stop in calmer / safer conditions.

Briefings in places like Bali and other dive locations are always open to criticisms of "inadequate". Divers need to be aware that your local DMs may have language issues in communicating fluently and extensively in English. Their advice that "currents may be strong" should always be taken as the strongest warning that this is a challenging dive. If you do not understand "strong" or understand what you need to do to manage diving in strong currents, it is your personal responsibility to ask and clarify. While the captain and DM may recommend the dive site based on your feedback, it is ultimately the diver who understands his own fitness and capabilities best in deciding whether to step into the water.

My tone of reply may sound harsh, but I am quite annoyed by Veron's subtle insinuations that the DMs were at fault or at least contributed to the poor experience he had.

I don't think your post is particularly harsh and I have to agree with a fair bit of it but IMHO the all the participants shared in the problem including the DM. Divers need to accept responsibility for themselves of course. Having a list of questions they ask the staff goes a long way to understanding expectations.

IMHO DM's and Dive Ops that rely on tourist dollars also have a responsibility to ensure they communicate well with their patrons. They also need to have a good list of questions and get an understanding of the expectations the divers have of them.

If both sides of the relationship are willing to do more than "their share" in working out expectations.. they create a positive relationship AND a much safer diving experience!

When I traveled overseas... I dived with a second computer. My normal computer was in Bar and the spare in PSI. That saved me the risk of having to do math (not my strong suit anyway) when I was task loaded, potentially stressed or narked. My dive buddies could read my computer in terms they were familiar with.

 

[trigger magnet]

In fact, in a recent experience in a very large dive center in Koh Tao, Thailand, I witnessed instructors telling OW students (repeatedly during the duration of the course) that when they completed their PADI OW certification, they could only dive with a DM or an Instructor. The PADI standard says otherwise of course; the standard is that OW certified divers can dive with a buddy who is OW certified or higher to a depth of 18 meters. In the case I just witnessed, the lead instructor was "working hard" to sell the OW students the AOW course.

hi, i'm new to the board but am a long time reader. great forum

i work as a DM on koh tao and felt i should clarify something about your comment. i don't work at a large dive center so it's unlikely you were on my boat -- i don't know exactly what you heard the instructors say. that said, on koh tao, DMs or Instructors lead every dive, regardless of the experience level of the divers. it's possible the instructor was telling his students that if they wanted to dive again during their visit they would still be under professional supervision.

as for the lead instructor trying to sell AOW, welcome to life on an island where the economy revolves around diving. dive centers here make most of their profits from con-ed, not from open water courses. it's simply good business to sell customers further training. and, in my opinion, it's good for the customers. competence in the water improves markedly during the 5 AOW dives. it's also good for diving. a confident diver is more likely to develop a passion for the sport.

it's interesting to read the different perspectives on the role of a DM. i suspect opinion varies widely depending on the location. on koh tao, we get a lot of very inexperienced divers -- many people learned to dive months or years ago and haven't dived since. for their own safety, it's important to have a professional in the water with them. we require scuba reviews for rusty divers and continue brushing up their skills as we lead them on dives. a DM should consider every error a teaching moment and work to make the customer a better diver.

i agree that divers are responsible for their own safety, but an alert DM or Instructor can often head off problems before they become dangerous. a dive leader shouldn't be expected to put themselves in danger to, for example, stop an out of control ascent, but often they can give in-water instruction that allows the diver to sort the problem out themselves or can stave off panic by getting involved when the diver is obviously stressed.

for experienced divers, a DM is basically an extra dive buddy who knows how to find the cool fish. for inexperienced divers, a DM is a BIG added measure of safety that allows eager but unskilled divers to enjoy the underwater environment safely and gain self-confidence in the process. if you like working with people and love diving, it's a great role to have.

 

[Tricia]

Wow! You gave me shock there, Dr. Tracy! When I read your post about your "husband's research", I thought you meant the guy who tried to drown you while diving was doing research on domestic murder victims...

But reading further, I see it's your new husband. Glad you cleared that up! (And glad you found a normal person and great dive buddy!)

Trish

 

[wanderlass]

It's true that in the Philippines, divers don't dive without a local dive guide (who are normally certified DM) esp. at if they're new to/not familiar with the dive site. If one diver reached 70 bar, he/she will signal low on air and the whole group ascent at the same time. So the need to share air is not very often. But the common practice is still to share air with your buddy not w/ the DM. In the Philippines, newer divers do have the tendency to depend on the dive masters. And it is normal that the dive masters feel responsible to lead and not lose the divers throughout the dive. I guess you can call that babysitting.

Thanks for the info, annasea.

What happens when more than one diver is low on air? Will the DM switch off sharing air between the two divers? It seems like a silly practice to me.
What about the "gas status" of the buddy of the LOA diver? If the LOA diver is sharing air with the DM, then he most likely cannot provide an emergency reserve for his buddy. Doesn't that create an unsafe situation for his buddy?

I can understand divers within a buddy team sharing air early on in a dive to compensate for uneven gas consumption, out of convenience. This would be done so that remaining gas supplies are "equalized" later on in the dive.

 

[Tortuga68]

It's true that in the Philippines, divers don't dive without a local dive guide...

While I'd agree that it's uncommon, it's not true that it doesn't happen

70 bar would only be LOA on deeper sites (eg 30m)

Whatever LOA is agreed to be before the dive, it's not unknown - in my experience anyway - for the group to split into buddy teams if one team goes LOA and the rest are okay and the agreed time limit for the dive hasn't been reached, and surface seperately

Apart from that I agree with you

 

[ScubaSteve]

In fact, in a recent experience in a very large dive center in Koh Tao, Thailand, I witnessed instructors telling OW students (repeatedly during the duration of the course) that when they completed their PADI OW certification, they could only dive with a DM or an Instructor.

Sorry if this has already been said, but, are you 100% sure that it was an Open Water class? PADI has a certification called Scuba Diver that:

With the PADI Scuba Diver certification you can dive under the direct supervision of a PADI Divemaster, Assistant Instructor, Instructor or higher professional on your next vacation or dive trip

 

[Bogie]

What are the techniques of getting out of a downwelling?

 

[Jax]

What are the techniques of getting out of a downwelling?

Bogie, I cannot find the original quote by Cave Diver, but he said something like this:

The downwelling is a current flow that runs down a wall. While it may be broad, it is not very deep - maybe 10' or 15'. If you launch off the wall and swim away from the wall toward open water, the down-welling will take you down but you will also swim out of the current. Then begin a controlled ascent.

 

[Quero]

What are the techniques of getting out of a downwelling?

Very often, down currents are localized, resulting from a horizontal current encountering some geological formation (such as an outcropping) which drives much of the the water downwards. When you see a down current (watch how the fish orient themselves, and if you see them pointing their faces to the surface you can be sure there's a down current present) swim away from the the area and upwards to get out of the current's path.

The down currents we experience where the OP was diving are driven by outgoing tides sweeping over the lip of a wall, so swimming away from the wall will take you out of the area where the effect is the greatest. Many divers don't want to do this since they worry about ascending out in the blue instead of right over the reef, so they battle the down current and climb the wall by holding on to corals and stones.

Another common place for down currents is a "notch" in the reef that funnels outgoing tidal water into a sort of "river". To avoid that manifestation of a down current, you swim away from the reef out into the blue a bit, around the area, and then swim back to the reef.

An insidious kind of down current to deal with, in my experience, is on a steeply sloping fringing reef since it is much less localized and it tends to be more gradual, so you may end up much deeper than you intended without realizing it. Because on this kind of dive site we are usually diving on the bottom, the outgoing tide keeps pushing us deeper along the bottom. It's possible to ascend in the water column so as not to go too deep, but again, you will be taken out into the blue, which is rather frightening for many divers, so the normal reaction is to grab rocks and pull yourself shallower. A better and safer solution is simply to ascend and end the dive.

In my opinion, it is not a good idea to inflate your BCD when battling a down current. A big puffy bladder just makes for a larger surface area for the current to push against (think of a sail in a stiff wind), and once the current releases you, you face the issue of a dangerously fast ascent. For the same reason, it is best not to release your weights unless absolutely necessary. The safest thing to do in terms of potential injury to your body is to swim away from the current and wait for it to release you. You may find yourself ascending in blue water, but you will probably not be terribly far from the dive site and can be picked up by your boat.

Make sure, as well, to equalize your air spaces if you are caught in a down current.