vladimir
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Recreational Wreck Diving vs Cave Diving. Why the Inconsistency?
- Thread starter DevonDiver
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Too funny! It reminds me of a friend's Cave 2 class, where the instructor got "lost", had to be "found", then panicked and had to be chased, ran out of gas, and then went unconscious. I think, by the time my friends got him out of the cave, they actually wanted to drown him
[sm]I have not had the time to read through the entire thread, but will do so latter.[/sm]
Recreational agencies already have a Wreck specialty, why not make it a more intensive course similar to Cavern. Many of the same skills apply. I feel a whole lot more prepared to go near wrecks after my cavern class than I ever did after a wreck specialty (audited several, never pursued the cert, felt it was a joke).
As I feel with all classes, this class should include more.
Unfortunately since I am at work I can not complete my thoughts at this time. I will explain more later. I look forward to the read.
Recreational agencies already have a Wreck specialty, why not make it a more intensive course similar to Cavern. Many of the same skills apply. I feel a whole lot more prepared to go near wrecks after my cavern class than I ever did after a wreck specialty (audited several, never pursued the cert, felt it was a joke).
As I feel with all classes, this class should include more.
Unfortunately since I am at work I can not complete my thoughts at this time. I will explain more later. I look forward to the read.
David_57
Contributor
Because they make it another course and call it another name which in turn gives an opportunity to grab more money, kind of like OW and AOW
DeepSeaExplorer
Contributor
If you compare cave and wreck, there are other differences as well. For example, cave doesn't require a formal deco class. Once you get full cave, you can get O2 fills and do all the deco you want - with absolutely no deco training. This was a bit of a surprise to me coming from ocean tech diving and having been required to take numerous deco classes. I've never tried to use my cave card to get O2 fills outside of Cave Country, but it might be an interesting experiment...
A lot of divers that went to Truk are not tech wreck/full cave trained. Not allow them to penetrate Fujikawa or saying SanFrancisco is far too deep(50m+)!!!!
A dive centre in Subic Bay would not let any divers, tech wreck or not, to penetrate USS New York without supervision. But there are dive guides, instructors and dive centres who are more than willing to take their clients to anywhere for.....
Nothing venture nothing gains!!
Survival of the fittest.
A dive centre in Subic Bay would not let any divers, tech wreck or not, to penetrate USS New York without supervision. But there are dive guides, instructors and dive centres who are more than willing to take their clients to anywhere for.....
Nothing venture nothing gains!!
Survival of the fittest.
Well, from the unexperienced viewpoint of this newbie, wreck penetration is the reason I will persue the Cavern / Intro to Cave . . . I want those skills to go into wrecks. This is from pure research into the classes offered and what makes sense.
Dr Wu
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Sure it can be a "joke" but it depends on when and where people are taking the course.
A "wreck diving class" on a warm water, clear vis hulk ..deliberately sunk as a tourist attraction is not the same as a "wreck diving class" done within more realistic situations. Many courses do not offer those sort of luxuries.
There are "wreck classes" conducted that inform students of the reality of diving on shipwrecks lying on the bottom due to bullet holes, weather and torpedoes. Those courses (even within "recreational standards") cover the required gear and techniques necessary to negotiate these wrecks that lie within reality. And that reality can be
pretty harsh.
It does require more gear. It does require more planning. And even the boat ride requires more knowledge.
Knowledge is what the instructors bring.
Mentors.
[sm]After getting in from work and reading through many a good post...[/sm]
<Just some thoughts>[sm]I hate the concept of making more classes for the sake of making money. I see people try it at work all the time.
I am all about personal freedom, so long as the "person" has the personal responsibility to go along with it. Education fits here. A course should be designed as a way not to "fix stupid" but to inform and enlighten. Based then on newly internalized information and wisdom, the "person" can make better decisions (s)he is capable of being responsible for.
I see this being brought up more and more: insufficient class material/ length/ requirements. All and all I agree. There are two kinds of people (to be limiting indeed), those that wish to learn and those that don't. Those that wish to learn do, those that do not wish to learn don't (intentionally).
As a student, I seek out an instructor that is a student. Someone who wishes to further himself will most likely bring me along for the adventure. We learn together (whether or not this is "formal" education or not can be debated).
As SCUBA is regulated primarily by its participants, we have input. Should classes be harder? I say yes. Would this hurt the dive industry? Maybe. Would it benefit those who participated anyway? Yes.[/Sm]
I like the idea of having an agency with similar agenda to the NSS-CDS or NACD to help keep wrecks available and to educate. Scuba police, not a fan, but dive responsibly.
Rick's Wreck scale made sense to me.
Distill down the ideas, change what is out there, make better divers.
<Just some thoughts>[sm]I hate the concept of making more classes for the sake of making money. I see people try it at work all the time.
I am all about personal freedom, so long as the "person" has the personal responsibility to go along with it. Education fits here. A course should be designed as a way not to "fix stupid" but to inform and enlighten. Based then on newly internalized information and wisdom, the "person" can make better decisions (s)he is capable of being responsible for.
I see this being brought up more and more: insufficient class material/ length/ requirements. All and all I agree. There are two kinds of people (to be limiting indeed), those that wish to learn and those that don't. Those that wish to learn do, those that do not wish to learn don't (intentionally).
As a student, I seek out an instructor that is a student. Someone who wishes to further himself will most likely bring me along for the adventure. We learn together (whether or not this is "formal" education or not can be debated).
As SCUBA is regulated primarily by its participants, we have input. Should classes be harder? I say yes. Would this hurt the dive industry? Maybe. Would it benefit those who participated anyway? Yes.[/Sm]
I like the idea of having an agency with similar agenda to the NSS-CDS or NACD to help keep wrecks available and to educate. Scuba police, not a fan, but dive responsibly.
Rick's Wreck scale made sense to me.
An instructor needs to be considered a Master of sorts. How can you teach what you do not know.
Distill down the ideas, change what is out there, make better divers.
OP
DevonDiver
N/A
If you compare cave and wreck, there are other differences as well. For example, cave doesn't require a formal deco class. Once you get full cave, you can get O2 fills and do all the deco you want - with absolutely no deco training. This was a bit of a surprise to me coming from ocean tech diving and having been required to take numerous deco classes. I've never tried to use my cave card to get O2 fills outside of Cave Country, but it might be an interesting experiment...
Which cave courses provide full accelerated deco qualification without deco training?
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