Air3 on BP/W setup

[halocline]

And yeah, you're also right. I've never used the long hose/short hose setup before either.

If you have properly used a long hose and still think that you can be "choked to death" by it, that's even scarier than you just having made up something.

 

[stairman]

If your not caveing or doing wreck penetration then a long hose isnt nessesary. I do advocate a bungeed backup necklace and want no part of a spare air setup but to each his own. If you take a formal cavern class, 7 ft hose management is required not that youll need it in a cavern situation where restrictions are a no no, but cavern is a prerequisite to cave and the skills start there. If you ever had to buddy breathe coming out of upstream Cow Sink, it wouldnt happen on short hoses. If you run a can light on you belt, right side, then the long hose is pulled snug under it, and then comes over your left side and lays over your neck. If you dont have a can light then the excess hose is simply tucked in the waistband until needed. With sidemount I tuck my excess hose under a few elastic bands on my left tank. FWIW I had a cave instructor who never could stand the long hose around his neck and chose to stowe it under tank bands even in backmount, which is a pain to retuck so once deployed he would just tuck it in his waistband till he surfaced and could re tuck it before the start of his next dive.

 

[spoolin01]

If you're the kind of person who's so on top the the incremental risk in their lives that you take your own parachute while flying to visit Grandma, then by all means - take all the time you need agonizing whether an integrated octo will make a life or death difference to you one day.

The truth is, there's no reason to conclude the vast majority of OW divers will ever see a situation where there's a whit of outcome difference between the two solutions to the problem. It's also not obvious that the absurd contortions of speculation that proponents of octos put everyone through, in detailing the additional risk from not using an octo, can't be turned around to show how deadly risky it is having that extra failure point/tangle risk/task loader dangling from your LP port.

 

[fnfalman]

If you have properly used a long hose and still think that you can be "choked to death" by it, that's even scarier than you just having made up something.

Anything can happen in a dive. Or are you saying that the long hose wrapped around your body poses no risk when a panicking OOA diver went grabbing for you?

Properly use something in a classroom environment is a lot different than in real life.

DIR divers are a lot better trained than a typical rec divers and since that they are all on the same sheet of music, they are a lot better off with their own configurations and maximize their trainings. If you dive DIR and your buddy isn't, then most of that teamwork training had just gone down the toilet.

It ain't too hard to put some thoughts into diving instead of drinking the kool-aid and think that one way of equipment confiiguration is good for all.

 

[fnfalman]

If you're the kind of person who's so on top the the incremental risk in their lives that you take your own parachute while flying to visit Grandma, then by all means - take all the time you need agonizing whether an integrated octo will make a life or death difference to you one day.

Some just feel the need to be better than others because they read something somewhere or take a class then go and wear all black gears or use a long hose/short hose with a Hog harness backplate.

The truth is, there's no reason to conclude the vast majority of OW divers will ever see a situation where there's a whit of outcome difference between the two solutions to the problem. It's also not obvious that the absurd contortions of speculation that proponents of octos put everyone through, in detailing the additional risk from not using an octo, can't be turned around to show how deadly risky it is having that extra failure point/tangle risk/task loader dangling from your LP port.

Thank you!!! A true thinker had spoken.

 

[Splitlip]

Kind of an internet phenomenon.

There are protocols for cave diving with which I agree (for cave penetration). For 90% of the rest of the divers in the world, these protocols are not necessarily required.

Yet when a question is asked about fins (splits) the bashing begins. Flutter kicking does not belong in a cave, but don't tell me split fins don't work.

A seven or 8 ft hose is required in a cave, but not open water. In fact JJ has since said that, so I guess it is OK.

When somebody asks about a BC, you see the bashing of "poodle jackets". Sure in cave diving with doubles, stages etc, a BPW is a no brainier. In blue and open water, a jacket can be fine.

In any event, "lemmings" hear what they perceive to be the "popular" philosophy. So even a diver who will never see the inside of a cave spews the company line, because he was motivated (bullied?) on the internet.

 

[danvolker]

Anything can happen in a dive. Or are you saying that the long hose wrapped around your body poses no risk when a panicking OOA diver went grabbing for you?

Properly use something in a classroom environment is a lot different than in real life.

DIR divers are a lot better trained than a typical rec divers and since that they are all on the same sheet of music, they are a lot better off with their own configurations and maximize their trainings. If you dive DIR and your buddy isn't, then most of that teamwork training had just gone down the toilet.

It ain't too hard to put some thoughts into diving instead of drinking the kool-aid and think that one way of equipment confiiguration is good for all.

I will say that in any scenario you can come up with, for a panicked OOA open water diver to come flying up behind or approaching from any direction..the 7 foot hose, DIR style will be vastly superior to the alternative "traditional" stuffed octo in a holder, or Air2, or any other traditional set up for the octo.
The whole rational for the DIR system is to "be able" to handle a diver who is seriously/dangerously out of air, even in a total blackout or total siltout...

Unless you experience how incredibly easy it is to donate a 7 foot hose, the way we wear it, you can't know how this works. This is DEMO stuff, not internet arguement material.
Aside from how instantly and easily we can yank the reg out of our own mouth and instantly have it in the mouth of an OOA diver, the other ENORMOUS benefit is dealing with swimming after you have calmed down the OOA diver with sufficient air to make them comfortable again. When you begin swimming with a 7 foot hose, you both are completely unencumbered by the sharing--versus nonsense like an Air2, where divers are almost locked in an embrace, and neither can swim without bumping constantly into the other....not to mention bouyancy control now being screwed up with the use of the ridiculous air2 as a breathig regulator.
This is one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but when you actually buddy breathe someone with an air2 ( I have, with a rental I once had with Air2 on it), you should be annoyed at how poorly thought out the system is for getting the person back to the boat. Sure it can be done. In the old days, we did this with each having only a single reg, and you would take turns breathing out of one reg if your buddy ran OOA. But even though this could get a diver back up to the surface, it IS not the best or smartest way to get an OOA diver back to the boat, TODAY.

fnfalman, someone who is DIR in your area needs to step up and show you how this works..you appear to like to think things out for yourself, so reading all this banter is not going to do much for you--you need to actually try this long hose DIR method, and then tell us what you think

Regards,
DanV

 

[spoolin01]

Well, from what I can tell OA situations are rare - more so for me since I don't often dive around large numbers of divers. ...also not likely to happen without at least a few options for coping, since I don't dive deep much nor very far from open overhead, and am decently strong. Since the integrated option is no less a redundant second stage than any other, I say who cares whether it's here, there, this long, or what. If you care, then take care of yourself. If it makes more sense in a specialized setting, fine. Quit scaring and distracting OW divers about things that don't much matter.

 

[danvolker]

?.....Since the integrated option is no less a redundant second stage than any other, I say who cares whether it's here, there, this long, or what. If you care, then take care of yourself. If it makes more sense in a specialized setting, fine. Quit scaring and distracting OW divers about things that don't much matter.

Wow.
Only you matter. No one else.
I hope you are never inconvenienced by an OOA diver....

DanV

 

[spoolin01]

I don't get how that occured to you. I would do everything I can - probably more than I should - to help another diver in distress. I'm just saying I see the advantage you point to as but a small one if even at all, all things considered - how do you feel about the risk you impose on passengers in your car by the choices you've made in that realm?

I think that experience and skill development with your own gear improves safety, confidence and enjoyment more than worrying whether your configuration could be better, or more to the point, that it's fatally flawed.

But mostly I think that the incessant bullying and seeding of doubt over configuration choices is damaging to the sport and unnerving to divers.