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My Venture into GUE - Another view
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Blackwood
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*shrug*
Yes, it does. However, there are as always shades of grey.
Discovering that you've become separated from a team mate is abort-worthy. But if on the way up you meet and figure out that there was an inconsequential hangup and that everything is okay, there's no particular reason to surface.
OTOH if anyone thinks that dive safety as been compromised or that something needs to be discussed, by all means proceed to the surface.
Abort (thumb) can be an individual call. Rescinding the abort must be a team call.
I don't disagree, and not trying to hijack the thread - just a handy reminder that thumbing the dive doesn't necessarily mean it's all over. Different context to the other thread anyway
Edit: I just read another thread where someone said the thumb meant to return to the entry point (anchor line) and ascend (in an OW non-penetration NDL dive on a wreck), so that's yet another variation
Edit: I just read another thread where someone said the thumb meant to return to the entry point (anchor line) and ascend (in an OW non-penetration NDL dive on a wreck), so that's yet another variation
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I'm still fretting a bit about the descent thing . . . I'm sure my thoughts are greatly shaped by the conditions in which I dive. In Puget Sound, particularly in the summertime, it can be true that the viz in the top 20 feet or so is measured in inches to one or two feet. If you don't stay right together, you will lose your buddy/ies and have to come back up and start over. A star descent (if water is still) or a shoulder-to-shoulder descent (if going into current) is really the only way to keep the team. And if you have agreed to do bubble checks at 20 feet, you have to be able to arrest your descent there briefly.
I also found that, in the South Florida currents, it was pretty important to stay very close together while dropping, because otherwise the water was going to sweep us apart, and I am not strong enough to fight it very effectively.
Unlike in class, no one I know dives shoulder-to-shoulder in perfect position all the time. It's too restrictive, and unnecessary in anything but the most unfriendly conditions (and I don't stay down in those conditions very long!). But for descent and ascent, I completely subscribe to the Fundies idea of a tight team. I hate messes.
I also found that, in the South Florida currents, it was pretty important to stay very close together while dropping, because otherwise the water was going to sweep us apart, and I am not strong enough to fight it very effectively.
Unlike in class, no one I know dives shoulder-to-shoulder in perfect position all the time. It's too restrictive, and unnecessary in anything but the most unfriendly conditions (and I don't stay down in those conditions very long!). But for descent and ascent, I completely subscribe to the Fundies idea of a tight team. I hate messes.
OP
Oh, no, I hope you're not fretting on my behalf! :shocked2:
I agree completely with what you're saying -- I definitely stay close to my buddy during ascents and descents . . . Just not, as you said, 'in perfect position all the time." If I dive in the unfriendly conditions, I'm stuck like glue exactly where we agreed I'd be!
Just to clarify, I took the thumb as the command signal that it was. We weren't truly separated, in that looking up I could still see her light. We ascended to 65 feet, had a quick "conversation" about whether to continue and surface or return back to the bottom, agreed to continue the dive, and down we went. So the rules worked as they should have: an individual thumbed it and the team decided to rescind it once the situation was resolved.
PfcAJ
Contributor
Being asked to ascend in position is not a pointless skill. While at a rec level it might not seem to have a lot of value. As you move up into technical diving, it becomes a valuable tool to have.
Gas switches, bag shoots, etc run much smoother if people aren't bumping into each other, facing the other direction, and so on.
One of the points of a fundamentals class is to prepare you for tech 1/ cave 1.
It's interesting to see how much attention is being paid to ascending/descending in formation. I have to say that one of the best skills drilled into us during Fundamentals, even for recreational diving, is the benefit of controlled, in-formation descents and ascents. It doesn't affect the "fun" of the dive at all, it doesn't restrict visibility or experience during the first or last few minutes of the dive, and the benefits are so substantial that it always feels like something I should strive to do well when I dive.
Part of this is because I feel that during the dive, things are very dynamic. I adjust position, I'm almost always moving, and I can always eventually get to where I want to be. But during descents and ascents, I'm really tested on several fronts, in a situation where it is often most critical for me to perform optimally. It's very good to merely be in visual sight and proximity to a buddy, but it adds much and detracts nothing to be able to be exactly where I want to be in the water column, against and in relation to a moving visual reference (my buddy).
Of course, there are situations where it's just not optimal to ascend/descend in a face-to-face formation (we don't even try if there's substantial current), but completely disregarding the entire "you'll need it for tech" argument, being able to maintain a team position on ascent/descent to me is like being able to navigate a parking lot without running up on the curb or bumping other cars, it's one of the most valuable real-world skills I picked up from Fundamentals and one I always want to do well.
Part of this is because I feel that during the dive, things are very dynamic. I adjust position, I'm almost always moving, and I can always eventually get to where I want to be. But during descents and ascents, I'm really tested on several fronts, in a situation where it is often most critical for me to perform optimally. It's very good to merely be in visual sight and proximity to a buddy, but it adds much and detracts nothing to be able to be exactly where I want to be in the water column, against and in relation to a moving visual reference (my buddy).
Of course, there are situations where it's just not optimal to ascend/descend in a face-to-face formation (we don't even try if there's substantial current), but completely disregarding the entire "you'll need it for tech" argument, being able to maintain a team position on ascent/descent to me is like being able to navigate a parking lot without running up on the curb or bumping other cars, it's one of the most valuable real-world skills I picked up from Fundamentals and one I always want to do well.
Plus, you have to admit, it's FUN. I absolutely love a well-executed ascent, everybody marching smartly up through the stops in perfect formation (and watching Kevin play yo-yo with the SMB spool makes it even more fun!).
LiteHedded
Contributor
it just seems like these things being said here, which are great, weren't said to them by bob in the class.
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