Would You sign up

[chuck34gboro]

What would you not want and what would you like to see.

Well I would not want to DIE of course and I would like to see scuba diving as an olympic sport. If Curling is a sport, scuba diving is a sport.:cool2:

Seriously though, maybe less on the "Holy **** i'm gonna die!" drills and more strenght and endurance tasks kinda line the World Strongest Man competitions.

 

[AfterDark]

Forty years ago yes. Today NO WAY!

 

[DevonDiver]

Part 2 has a nice shot for a potential Spare Air video ad. "Good enough for the Special Forces, Good enough for You!"

Alternatively: "Good enough for a swimming pool..."

 

[irishsquid]

Alternatively: "Good enough for a swimming pool..."

Your alternative is better!

 

[Narced Out]

Im 16 and im enlisting in the Army this may when i turn 17. Im hoping to sign a contract with the rangers and go Green Beret at some point. Leading up to that i want to become a combat diver on the side.

I would totally do this with you, if you are near San Diego. This just sounds badass to me, hit me up if you put something together.

Actaully, i showed that clip to my dive instructor, the drown proofing part and asked him if we could do it. I never got a reply though.

 

[Doc]

This has been on History Channel months ago.

Somebody already beat you to the civilian version. Here's the real deal: No weenie divers allowed

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Every time I watch military diving videos such as these, I'm reminded of my PDIC open water course in 1981. Many of the same concepts were taught, but in a slightly less aggressive way of course.

But, to compare:

1. Attitude

Like these special forces instructors, our instructors were no nonsense. Yes, they were friendly, but at the same time distant and professional. To be a certified scuba diver was something to which you needed to aspire. The instructors didn't try to sell you on the idea of becoming a diver. You had to sell them on the idea that you deserved to be a certified open water diver. You needed to show up when and where you were told. Tardiness was unacceptable. You needed to listen well and follow instructions. They set the bar. You met it. No one was coddled. You either passed or you didn't.

2. Physical Exercise

Every class began with lap swimming and snorkel swims. We were expected to swim and snorkel hard to develop our fitness and improve our kicking techniques and muscle endurance. We were timed and encouraged to do more and work harder and faster. A weak kick or any inefficient or incorrect kick was a "No Go" for open water. A student needed to prove he or she was a strong swimmer. Unlike the military trainees in the video clip any use of hand sculling was also a "No Go." You either could use your legs like a diver or you couldn't be a diver.

3. Comfort in the Water

We had to perform underwater swims, drown-proofing exercises such as bobbing and jellyfish float, and all skills had to be performed without touching the pool. No hanging on the pool deck. No using the bottom for help. You could flip-turn off the walls when swimming and some skills would start while kneeling on the bottom, but once the bottom was removed from the equation we couldn't touch the bottom. For example, the first time you flipped a tank over your head to don it in the water you could use the bottom in the shallows. After that, you needed to don the tank in deep water without help at the start of every class after you completed your laps. Once you removed and replaced the tank kneeling underwater, you needed to do it while hovering afterward. You were strongly reprimanded for touching the pool sides or being on the bottom. Enough violations and you failed. A typical class/pool session was 1.5 hours in class and 1.5 hours in pool once a week for 6 - 8 weeks before open water.

4. Failures & Harassment

Things would go wrong. We'd either make mistakes as students, the instructors would create them or the equipment would misbehave on its own. We had to problem-solve underwater. Our masks would be snatched. Our regulators would be pulled from our mouths unexpectedly. As we became better at dealing with problems and as our skills became better, we were dealt combination and multiple failures to solve. You'd be replacing your tank underwater when suddenly your buddy would be out of air and no sooner did you fix that then you'd lose a mask.

As one of the special forces instructors remarked in the clip, "Nothing out here is done with the intention of smoking the student unnecessarily. Everything is done to make him a better diver."

We understood that we needed to perform correctly under stress and we had to train out certain automatic survival instincts and replace those with trained behaviors since water was as unforgiving as its properties and physics. However, we weren't hit hard like football players. The worst would be a very hard tap to simulate a scared diver desperately trying to gain attention and air in an OOA situation or having a reg ripped from our mouths and needing to calm the victim and retrieve it to begin buddy breathing. Everything that we overcame created confidence. Like the clips, some people just didn't have the comfort and abilities in the opinions of our instructors to handle what the oceans, lakes, and rivers of the world could throw at us.

To emerge a certified diver was one of the proudest of accomplishments.

 

[50Fathom]

Every time I watch military diving videos such as these, I'm reminded of my PDIC open water course in 1981. Many of the same concepts were taught, but in a slightly less aggressive way of course.

But, to compare:

1. Attitude

Like these special forces instructors, our instructors were no nonsense. Yes, they were friendly, but at the same time distant and professional. To be a certified scuba diver was something to which you needed to aspire. The instructors didn't try to sell you on the idea of becoming a diver. You had to sell them on the idea that you deserved to be a certified open water diver. You needed to show up when and where you were told. Tardiness was unacceptable. You needed to listen well and follow instructions. They set the bar. You met it. No one was coddled. You either passed or you didn't.

2. Physical Exercise

Every class began with lap swimming and snorkel swims. We were expected to swim and snorkel hard to develop our fitness and improve our kicking techniques and muscle endurance. We were timed and encouraged to do more and work harder and faster. A weak kick or any inefficient or incorrect kick was a "No Go" for open water. A student needed to prove he or she was a strong swimmer. Unlike the military trainees in the video clip any use of hand sculling was also a "No Go." You either could use your legs like a diver or you couldn't be a diver.

3. Comfort in the Water

We had to perform underwater swims, drown-proofing exercises such as bobbing and jellyfish float, and all skills had to be performed without touching the pool. No hanging on the pool deck. No using the bottom for help. You could flip-turn off the walls when swimming and some skills would start while kneeling on the bottom, but once the bottom was removed from the equation we couldn't touch the bottom. For example, the first time you flipped a tank over your head to don it in the water you could use the bottom in the shallows. After that, you needed to don the tank in deep water without help at the start of every class after you completed your laps. Once you removed and replaced the tank kneeling underwater, you needed to do it while hovering afterward. You were strongly reprimanded for touching the pool sides or being on the bottom. Enough violations and you failed. A typical class/pool session was 1.5 hours in class and 1.5 hours in pool once a week for 6 - 8 weeks before open water.

4. Failures & Harassment

Things would go wrong. We'd either make mistakes as students, the instructors would create them or the equipment would misbehave on its own. We had to problem-solve underwater. Our masks would be snatched. Our regulators would be pulled from our mouths unexpectedly. As we became better at dealing with problems and as our skills became better, we were dealt combination and multiple failures to solve. You'd be replacing your tank underwater when suddenly your buddy would be out of air and no sooner did you fix that then you'd lose a mask.

As one of the special forces instructors remarked in the clip, "Nothing out here is done with the intention of smoking the student unnecessarily. Everything is done to make him a better diver."

We understood that we needed to perform correctly under stress and we had to train out certain automatic survival instincts and replace those with trained behaviors since water was as unforgiving as its properties and physics. However, we weren't hit hard like football players. The worst would be a very hard tap to simulate a scared diver desperately trying to gain attention and air in an OOA situation or having a reg ripped from our mouths and needing to calm the victim and retrieve it to begin buddy breathing. Everything that we overcame created confidence. Like the clips, some people just didn't have the comfort and abilities in the opinions of our instructors to handle what the oceans, lakes, and rivers of the world could throw at us.

To emerge a certified diver was one of the proudest of accomplishments.

I thought THIS was what my OW training would be. You can imagine my disappointment when I actually took the course. I had to hold myself to a higher standard, since no one else would.

THIS type of training needs to be brought back and be "the way it is."

I envy you and others who got the privilege of this level and style of training. Too bad the options for it are limited these days.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I thought THIS was what my OW training would be. You can imagine my disappointment when I actually took the course. I had to hold myself to a higher standard, since no one else would.

THIS type of training needs to be brought back and be "the way it is."

I envy you and others who got the privilege of this level and style of training. Too bad the options for it are limited these days.

I recently attended a meeting in which we were split into focus groups to solve problems within the industry as we approached 2020. Each group universally agreed that both diver and instructor training is poor and this is the primary industry problem that needs immediate resolution. What wasn't agreed upon is how to fix it. When bringing back "old school" training was mentioned, people immediately worried that we would lose some divers - especially women or older divers.

I am a firm believer that anyone who thinks women aren't motivated enough or capable of such training is sexist and don't give women any credit. In my experience women want to play on the same teams and by the same standards as men.

Regarding age differences, there is no reason why performance differences shouldn't simply be age-adjusted like marathons or the Army physical fitness test.

I think the heart and soul of the diving industry are the young people who wish to be challenged. By removing the challenge we are removing the youth who are striving to prove themselves and in the process gain life experiences which will help them be better for it. I think we are losing the many for the sake of the few.

Yet, I believe everyone should be able to dive. The success of handicapped diving programs proves that. But, we can accommodate the needs of the few while still allowing divers to really earn C-cards that are universally respected.

 

[jgoodstein]

Trace,


what a wonderful addition to this thread, thanks man. I couldn't agree with you more. My instructor acted in that exact manner. we definitely had to prove to him we could keep ourselves alive. He felt that if we left unprepared or unable to take care of ourselves that it would reflect poorly on him and that he would not sleep at night knowing he was responsible for a "poor diver". and his standards were beyond the minimum requirements. Why do you want the minimum when risking your life he said repeatedly to us. Thanks again for incredible insight