Two fatalities in Monterey

[Ayisha]

At shallower depths as the boys apparently were, the effects of bad gas would be a lot less pronounced than on much deeper dives. They would be able to dive for a lot longer without feeling the effects of CO, etc. It could be a slow and steady onslaught at shallow depths rather than a quick incapacitation at a more significant depth.

 

[lowtech]

Diver A runs out of gas due to inattention and signals to diver B.

Diver B fails to deliver gas to diver A quickly.

Diver A fights diver B for the regulator in diver B's mouth and knocks diver B's mask off.

Diver A drowns and Diver B drowns and/or heads to the surface uncontrollably and blows their lungs.

Both of them wind up on the bottom near each other and are recovered.

During confined water training for my OW cert doing my first air, the reg free flowed, and I lost my grasp on the hose.
I didn't register that I still had my own gas as it was a drill.
In addition the free flowing reg was causing a fair amount of commotion.
Knowing I was in a pool I thumbed to my buddy and did a CESA.
My thought process wasn't sheer panic more like something was wrong with the gear and we should address it on the surface. I got a little water up my nose, but still had the composure to inflate my BC and get positive.
That incident definitely rattled me and I can see a similar situation at depth being a lot more traumatic.

 

[Lobzilla]

But then what are the odds both divers would breath their tanks down to empty/nearly empty? Wouldn't the odds of that be low?

Good point Ms Marple

Here is how this could work. When I was the vic on the last unconcious diver rescue I intentionally relaxed my jaw and went totally limp, to make it a little more realistic for my buddy . First, the reg would not fall out easily. After it finally fell out it free flowed until stopped.

CO poisioning is like hypoxia; you slowly drift away while breathing.

Again, bad gas is pure speculation at this point but fortunately easily confirmed or dismissed.

Unfortunately, the public version of the coroner's finding will be death by drowning - duh. Other results, like sign of stuggle, blood anaysis, gas analysis, etc. will probably never make it 'to the surface' due to legal CYA.

Im a strong opponent of more government but boy am I happy that we have the NTSB in aviation. Those reports teach you more than all the books covering the happy path.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Apparently it is quite common for divers who are unconscious or already deceased while at depth to embolize on the ascent.

If the diver has a laryngospasm or who knows for what reason, including sinus issues, congestion, asthma, etc., the airway may not be open and the expanding air may not vent fast enough.

A diver coming up back first with the head tilted forward would have their airway closed just from the position of the head with chin down on the chest as another possible scenario.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Apparently it is quite common for divers who are unconscious or already deceased while at depth to embolize on the ascent.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. It seems UNcommon. (Why do you think it's quite common? Is there a source or stats you can share?)

If the diver has a laryngospasm or who knows for what reason, including sinus issues, congestion, asthma, etc., the airway may not be open and the expanding air may not vent fast enough.

The laryngospasm is probably the best culprit and is the exception, not the rule. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that it rarely happens.

In terms of the accidents I personally know of (a couple of dozen over the years probably) where the diver was brought unconscious from the bottom to the surface, I can't think of a single one that produced an embolism.

- Ken

 

[Peter Guy]

I've refrained from posting because I've been in contact with some of their instructors -- but I feel I must jump in due to some of the latest posts.

Something bad happened -- that much we know.

The instructors this class has are very good -- this I know.

Despite what some instructors may write, they don't know how their students will react to bad situations. Some will respond very well, some, sadly, not so well. At some point it is NOT the instructor or the agency but, instead, the individuals involved.

When I heard about this Saturday night I kept hoping it wasn't the class my friends teach, but it was. In addition to the horrible times the families are having, I can guarantee you the instructors are having nightmares too -- and then, perhaps, they sleep. So please, don't be so quick to condemn the instruction -- especially when you don't know what was taught.

 

[DyverEric]

I have been diving for 30 years, as of last January, and from my original certification class it has always been taught to drop your weights as soon as you realize you are in trouble. I have always thought, and passed on to new divers, it is better to replace a weightbelt than risk your life. When in doubt, drop it!

So far as the bleeding...From what has been published, I would speculate that the one with little air left must have panicked for some reason (maybe the one who lost his mask) and shot to the surface resulting in an embolism and quite possibly loss of consciousnes. That would cause him to sink again and his dive buddy most likely ran out of air looking for him or trying to return him to the surface.

Its hard to say what really happened and unless they had advanced dive computers, we will never really know.

 

[Peter_C]

Or, if there was aspiration of sea water, you could end up with pinkish frothy fluid coming from the mouth &/or nose.

But if the diver is unconscious, they're not "holding" their breath since that's a conscious effort. All the air passages ought to be relaxed so whatever expanding air there is, should vent out.

- Ken

Thank you for the reply Ken. The fluid was fairly red in color, and did definitely come from the youths mouth area. What you describe above though could be exactly what I saw.

Edited for content.

 

[Lobzilla]

I have been diving for 30 years, as of last January, and from my original certification class it has always been taught to drop your weights as soon as you realize you are in trouble. I have always thought, and passed on to new divers, it is better to replace a weightbelt than risk your life. When in doubt, drop it!

The worry is not the stupid weight belt. The bad news is the uncontrolled, rapid ascent following the ditching. One AGE can really spoil your day.

So far as the bleeding...From what has been published, I would speculate that the one with little air left must have panicked for some reason (maybe the one who lost his mask) and shot to the surface resulting in an embolism and quite possibly loss of consciousnes. That would cause him to sink again and his dive buddy most likely ran out of air looking for him or trying to return him to the surface.

I would like to see this persistent myth busted.

Once it gets warm enough for a wetsuit, I may demonstrate it myself that once you establish slightly positive buoyancy you will keep going until you reach the surface. (Part of the experiment will be an achored line to slow my ascent when -not if- necessary. I remember coming up from 100' and dumping gas like mad to keep the ascent speed within limits. In the experiment I will not dump gas)

With the gas in your BC and in the neoprene of your suit expanded you are going to stay at the surface. You may drown on the surface if your face is in the water but you wll not sink again. (I will demonstrate this by fully exhaling and compensating for the residual air in the lungs with a weight).

A swimming ascent against seriously negative buoyancy is different story. But that is not going to be a fast ascent. (Second point of the experiment will be to show how much weight I can swim up from depth reliably and how long I can hold it on the surface. That's for my education and planning).

Its hard to say what really happened and unless they had advanced dive computers, we will never really know

and possibly not even if they had computers.

 

[Jax]

The worry is not the stupid weight belt. The bad news is the uncontrolled, rapid ascent following the ditching.

I would like to see this persistent myth busted.

Once it gets warm enough for a wetsuit, I may demonstrate it myself that once you establish slightly positive buoyancy you will keep going until you reach the surface. With the gas in your bc and in the neoprene of your suit expanded you are going to stay at the surface. (Part of the experiment will be an achored line to slow my ascent. One AGE can really spoil your day)

You may drown on the surface if your face is in the water but you wll not sink again.

A swimming ascent against seriously negative buoyancy is different story. But that is not going to be fast.

and possibly not even if they had computers.

The only thing about your theory is that they got to a point of being positively buoyant. I think it more possible that the first one went OOG and the second went OOG shortly thereafter, before they could really "get" anywhere.