Two fatalities in Monterey

[mdb]

This is developing into a very interesting thread.

The death of two young men is a terrible tragedy.

I believe that we all hope we can learn something and make ourselves, and others, safer divers.

The comments of Ken Kurtis, with all of his real world experience, and NWGD, a very active instructor, are most informative.

I am not an instructor, just a rec diver with a couple of thousand dives in California waters. My speculation is that it was a failed and panicked attempt at buddy breathing that took the lives of these two young men.

I've had several buddy breathing incidents over the years. I can easily imagine how this went very wrong, very fast.

 

[blinkswiler]

I don't remember anything in my PADI rescue class about gear removal on the bottom. In fact, I seem to recall holding reg in mouth loosely to permit air venting with the possibility of an air supply then gear removal at surface. In the unlikely event that seconds may actually matter, getting to the surface with an unlimited air supply would seem more appropriate than fighting with anything more than a weight belt removal on the bottom. Right hand release on weight belts are standard instruction. BC releases vary, can be tangled, jammed, broken during the victom's attempt to get out, difficult to remove in cold water and very time consuming.

 

[Jax]

From someone who'd rather be anonymous: Speculation:

Here's a (more likely?) possibility:

First diver runs out of gas. While being assisted (or before), first diver loses consciousness. Second diver, inexperienced with diver rescue, either over-exerts himself (doesn't drop first diver's weightbelt, and/or doesn't/can't use his own power inflator) and blacks out from CO2 buildup, or holds his breath during ascent which leads to a barotrauma which causes him to black out. Both divers fall back to the ocean floor next to each other.

 

[ianr33]

What depth were they at?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I find it rather interesting that the guy who's famous for his let's-stop-speculating rants in the A&I forum is speculating that ditching weight would have given the two divers a shot at survival. We really don't have that much info to work with. Hopefully, the gear of the two victims will be/has been recovered. If the divers were using computers, perhaps the downloaded profiles might reveal whether they had gone quickly up or down in the water column during the dive (possibly during a rescue attempt by the second diver?). Perhaps this info, in addition to autopsy (if performed), will give us more of a clue as to what occurred during the incident and what can be done to avoid something similar from happening in the future. It's tragic that two seemingly healthy teenagers, who held OW certifications, perished on what would seem to be a typical-for-the-Monterey-area dive. Considering that they were not so far removed from OW training and the unusual circumstance of a double fatality, it would be entirely appropriate to ponder whether OW class prepared these divers adequately for the conditions they encountered during the dive.

In an emergency, ditching weight is certainly an option, but in order for the divers involved to make use of that option, a few things have to be in place:

• The divers must have enough awareness to recognize they are in an emergency situation,
• They must demonstrate enough poise/reasoning to decide to ditch weight, and
• They must have the physical capability to release the ditchable weight.

It's not difficult to imagine that a medical condition, flooded/lost mask, regulator malfunction, or OOA situation arising in one diver could create panic in one (or both) divers. Even if the second diver were of sound mind when he attempted to assist, there could have been a struggle during which the panicked diver might have inadvertently hit/punched/kicked the diver trying to assist. At that point, anything could have happened to the assisting diver, e.g., panic, loss of mask followed by panic, loss of consciousness, loss of reg->inhalation of water->laryngospasm->loss of consciousness, etc.

 

[Peter_C]

I recently read in Submerged that when a drowning victim is brought to the surface and the pressure is lowered the victims can lungs can rupture and blood will come out of the divers mouth and nose.

Ken Kurtis, is this common in dive related accidents after being brought up from depth?

This weekend my gal was at the Breakwater working on getting open water certified with an instructor. I was at Point Lobos with one of my friends diving, where we witnessed a rescue. Upon arriving at the Breakwater, I find it in a state of commanding activity.

There is a fire (ladder) truck with the boom fully extended and a person on the top scanning the Monterey Bay. Lots of police, fireman, Coast Guard in action. A bunch of private boaters were joining in the search too. The Coast Guard was performing as a top notch unit like they are known for, with a helicopter, multiple boats, and a team behind it all, coordinating the situation. I feel everyone did an excellent job handling the attempted rescue. We must thank those that do their best to help keep all of us safe. Many times their jobs are involved with the tragic loss of life, and in this case two lives.

When I heard the ambulance sirens, I ventured to the far side of Breakwater, where the launch ramp is. A couple of Coast Guard boats where charging into the harbor. Another guy and I were chatting about everything as the boats pulled up to the docks. We walked over to the side railing, well out of everyone's way, and watched as they brought the two divers off the boat. At that point I didn't know they had found them on the bottom. They were performing chest compressions and bagging them. They hustled up the gang plank into the ambulances. The other guy and I knew they were deceased at that time. The ambulances took off sirens blaring on their way to the hospital.

If the article is correct and the emergency call went out at 12:25pm, means the youths had passed on around that time frame, and more likely, much earlier. My exif data for the photos I took showed 1:53pm as the Coast Guard pulled into the harbor with the youths aboard. My guess is it took less than 10 minutes from the time the youths bodies hit the surface to the time they were at the dock. I didn't take any pictures of the youths or the crews working to get them off the boat into the ambulances, and am very glad I didn't (Camera in hand it is not something I wanted to record) to help these memories fade into a lighter shade of gray.

Saturday night as I lay down to sleep the images in my head, of the youths being brought off the boat into the ambulances, kept me awake for a long time. I was replaying the youths as they brought them up the ramp. We wondered where the worried parents where, but now understand they said goodbye to their children, expecting them home safely within a couple of days, with fabulous stories to tell. I feel for the families and offer them my sincerest condolences for their losses.

Edited for content.

 

[Jax]

What depth were they at?

Two divers drown in Monterey Bay - Press-Telegram

Two Coast Guard boats and a helicopter aided the effort to locate and rescue the divers. Crews from Monterey Police and Fire departments and state parks lifeguards responded to the emergency.

"It was a very intense search effort," Kahle said.

It was not immediately clear how deep the divers were when they got into trouble. Estimates ranged from 40 to 80 feet.

Monterey police collected evidence and conducted interviews Saturday. The department will give that information to the Coroner's Unit of the Monterey County Sheriff's Office.

The coroner will determine the cause of death.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As an instructor I do teach students to drop weights. To an extent. Just how much weight should they drop? I'm a big proponent of proper weighting and proper weight distribution. A properly weighted diver should not need to drop more than a few pounds to be on his/her way up. Preferably at a controlled rate. Diving dry or in heavy wetsuits to me necessitates distributing the weight in such a manner that dropping a pocket on an integrated BC or a weight belt inadvertently does not cause an uncontrolled ascent. An unconscious diver on the bottom in a heavy suit of any type can be a dangerous situation for the rescuer if they would somehow get tangled up with the victim and be dragged to the surface.

This is why I find it unconscionable that rescue skills like this are no longer taught in OW classes by some agencies. Why are divers not dropping their weights or dropping those of their buddy who may be in trouble? Simple. They have not been taught how to do it. Not enough to stick anyway it seems. Everything about scuba they are taught is fun and laughs and so easy anyone can do it. Until they can't and someone dies. The real risks are not stressed and driven home.

We don't want to scare anyone off. Fact is some of them should be scared off. I'm not saying these kids should not have been diving. I am saying that if they were only open water certed it is likely that neither was trained and therefor prepared to handle whatever emergency arose here. Junior divers especially should be taught at a minimum how to raise an unconscious diver from depth, how to handle a panicked diver on the surface and underwater, how to strip gear while towing, how to assist a buddy in dropping weights, and how to support a diver at the surface. I know of at least one fatality that has occurred because a buddy did not know how to drop a divers weights or support her at the surface. That incident alone made me put a new step in the predive checks my students and I do - before even getting into the water they are taught to reach over and remove a buddy's weight pouches, belt, etc and replace it. Some systems will pull out in any direction, some need to come straight out, others may require you to do something else. It's not fun with the Zeagle ripcord system but they do it any way.

Taking these basic rescue skills out of the OW class was one of the stupidest things ever done. Making people wait until rescue to do these things? A course that most "divers" will never take. Especially vacation divers. You now have two teenagers dead. Would rescue skills have helped them? Perhaps.

I would doubt a heart attack or stroke took both of them. I see more of a one person got into trouble and the buddy valiantly tried to help. But there is no platform or pool bottom to kneel on, you have current and surge with poor vis, and perhaps attempting a skill they "MASTERED" by doing it successfully one time. They likely did not practice sharing air or buddy breathing while swimming and ditching weights or surfacing. Things I and other instructors have our students do. Because it's not in the standards or is too much for an OW diver.

This stuff sickens me when I hear of it and it does so because many of these incidents are preventable. Whether by training and more emphasis on the risks and how to lessen them or by trying to get divers to exercise better judgment when choosing to dive, a dive buddy, a training path, or when to simply say this dive today is pushing it.

 

[andrewy]

Two weeks ago we had AOW class in about the same area. 5 -10 ft viz. boat had 4 students, 3 instructors and few other customers. We went to 86ft for about 20+ minutes, in this short time 2 guys (not our students bolted up in out of air, and i had student sucking on my long hose on a safety stop (we started going up @ 1500psi!).

What im trying to say that untrained folks jumping in monterey waters face REAL danger. This fatality made me remember my first monterey boat dive. 7mm wetsuit, ~30lb of lead. Once ready to go up we are told to deflate BC and fin up., well i was really finning but you CANT fin up being ~15lb negative (before you flaming, calculate neoprene needs ), and you will go through AL80 can in no time or worse yet blackout... and top it all off last saturday i seen divers dressing up at monastery with clearly rental gear and 4ft waves.

 

[Lobzilla]

[speculation]

If the divers were even on their air consumption - not so hard to imagine - the first guy goes OOG and they grab each other to air-share and ascend. The get up just a little ways, and the second tank goes dry. IF (big if) they were overweighted as new divers often are, they might not struggle to the surface.

Assumption - they both lose track of air, not hard to imagine. Assumption - they panic and don't drop weight, etc.

[/speculation]

The counter-intuitive physical reality is that the more overweighed a diver is on the surface the faster will be an uncontrolled ascent from a point of neutral buoyancy

Lets take an example: A diver puts on 8 pounds more lead than needed, descends to 66' feet (3 ATA) and levels off by injecting gas into the BC. The additional 8 pounds of weight are now balanced by 1 gallon of extra gas over what a perfectly weighed diver would carry in the BC. We need to displace one extra gallon of water to make up for the 8 pounds we should not have carried.

At 33' (2 ATA) this gallon of extra gas in the BC has expanded to 1.5 gallon. 1 gallon would be enough to compensate for the additional 8 pounds but the diver displaces an additional .5 gallon and therefore has 4 pounds of additional buoyancy that the perfectly weighed diver would not have.

On the surface (1 ATA), the extra gas will expand to 3 gallon. 1 gallon would be needed to float the 8 pounds, so 2 gallons will be extra. Therefore, the overweighed diver will have 16 pounds more positive buoyancy, even though he started the dive 8 pounds heavier.

This will of course only be true if the BC can hold the additional volume and the diver does not vent the expanding gas. Ignored is the effect of additional buoyancy by the expansion of the exposure protection.

In case I messed the number up above and for those who do not like math and physics, let's just follow our experience: After we put on 20 pounds of lead to sink our drysuit was our problem to go up or to stay down?

If you are neutrally buoyant, up is easy easy once you get it going - sometimes annoyingly easy. If you sit on the bottom 20 pounds heavy (after venting your BC before OOG or after a BC failure) that is a different story. Then, and only then, should you (be able to) ditch.