Vortex 3-18-2012

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Are these caves, mostly, already mapped and marked with "lines". Why not an antenna imbedded into the lines for an alert system - then a proximity could also be calculated.

Antenna on the line may make it hard to cut the line in the event of a tangle that may require cutting ones-self loose.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

But didn't you recently post that you did go there for a class?

Sure did, how about finishing the quote next time. If there wasnt storms EVERYWHERE we were going somewhere else.

 

[rlynch]

Any rescue outside of your in water team is unrealistic. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it simply means that it is improbable.

and as a Solo diver the probablity is close to Nil.

 

[JamesK]

Antenna on the line may make it hard to cut the line in the event of a tangle that may require cutting ones-self loose.

Not only that, to get a signal to the surface you would have to run the line out in to open water, inviting more divers to join in who are not trained. Add to the fact that these caves are not 100% lined. So if you go off the mainline then you would not have that anymore.

 

[limeyx]

Its important for everyone to understand that being full cave does not mean you are qualified to do all cave dives. Some are inheirently more difficult and riskier than others and this particular one is bad. It takes many many hours to progress to that. Having a full cave cert is still a learners permit. those who stick around usually progress slowly and dive a lot. I too appreciate you Grace for coming here and giving us information.

Probably the best post on this thread I read so far.

I have "full cave" and you wouldn't see me in this one in 100 years.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

Could some of the certified cave divers maybe clarify something for us non-cave divers: If you set a cut-off time with people back on the surface, is there on the part of most of the cave diving community that there's any realistic expectation that someone might luck out and be able to rescue you.

No.

The only cases would be a dedicated "support team" but not some general guys back on the surface.

 

[jwp8363]

With me not being a cave diver, maybe I am wrong on this but I am a master scuba diver and I am a little confused on the way things supposedly went so please clarify. Was it not stated in the report that the diver told his gf that he should contact someone if he did not return in 1-1/2 hours which she did. If that is the case, why would she be then told that he was fine and not to worry. I would never dive without a buddy, but understand why some people might. With that in mind, I do know my approximate limitations and if I tell someone to get help if I am not back in the time I set, then the help I send someone to get should take it as an emergency and not tell them that I am fine and not to worry. I think that some of the blame should be taken by the shop for not acting when the girlfriend came in the first time.

 

[mike_s]

I think that some of the blame should be taken by the shop for not acting when the girlfriend came in the first time.

I never saw any implication they didn't act. I think Eduardo went in the water looking. When she went back to ask Eduardo again, he was already in the water. (from media reports).

 

[boulderjohn]

With me not being a cave diver, maybe I am wrong on this but I am a master scuba diver and I am a little confused on the way things supposedly went so please clarify. Was it not stated in the report that the diver told his gf that he should contact someone if he did not return in 1-1/2 hours which she did. If that is the case, why would she be then told that he was fine and not to worry. I would never dive without a buddy, but understand why some people might. With that in mind, I do know my approximate limitations and if I tell someone to get help if I am not back in the time I set, then the help I send someone to get should take it as an emergency and not tell them that I am fine and not to worry. I think that some of the blame should be taken by the shop for not acting when the girlfriend came in the first time.

The problem is that you are asking questions about the details of a news story that is obviously filled with misinformation, so no one can give you a real answer at this time.

 

[boulderjohn]

- then a proximity could also be calculated.

Assuming I understand correctly what you mean by calculating proximity....

In general, the mainline in a cave has arrows every 100 feet. These arrows point the way to the nearest exit, so that if you are ever confused you know which way to go. The distance is marked on that arrow. If you want to know where something is, you can say, "just before the 1200 foot arrow."

 

[SC_Hoaty]

... With that in mind, I do know my approximate limitations and if I tell someone to get help if I am not back in the time I set, then the help I send someone to get should take it as an emergency and not tell them that I am fine and not to worry. ...

Pure speculation and 20-20 hindsight here: Had Larry told Eduardo "Hey man, if my gf says I'm late, would you please come get me, 'cause I might be in over my head." then things might have played out differently. Was Eduardo aware that Larry was relying on him as surface support? (End of speculation)

The reason I speculate is that my understanding is Eduardo is not there to be a "lifeguard" or other emergency support. Why assign liability when the potentially liable party has not agreed to the arrangement?

I commend Eduardo on finding Larry and coordinating with the recovery team.