Vortex 3-18-2012

[Hetland]

With me not being a cave diver, maybe I am wrong on this but I am a master scuba diver and I am a little confused on the way things supposedly went so please clarify. Was it not stated in the report that the diver told his gf that he should contact someone if he did not return in 1-1/2 hours which she did. If that is the case, why would she be then told that he was fine and not to worry. I would never dive without a buddy, but understand why some people might. With that in mind, I do know my approximate limitations and if I tell someone to get help if I am not back in the time I set, then the help I send someone to get should take it as an emergency and not tell them that I am fine and not to worry. I think that some of the blame should be taken by the shop for not acting when the girlfriend came in the first time.

without doing the actual math, I can guess, based on the assumption that he had possession of three tanks, that if the search began at the 1.5 hour mark, it probably wouldn't have mattered. He was too deep, too far back, and probably overbreathing trying to un-stick himself. He might have been alive when the search started, but he wouldn't have been by the time they found him.....

if someone wants to do the actual math and correct me, then be my guest.

 

[PfcAJ]

Were his tanks empty? Oxygen analysis?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I think antennas are just a good way to get false security and not to mention killing cave conservation.
A couple weeks ago Edd actually made a save of two divers at Jackson Blue. That is rare. Everything worked just right. Those two divers now know what being above their limits is even if it wasn't
their fault
Diving beyond the gate at Vortex is no problem at full caave. Going beyond the T adds a lot of danger and does need lots of experience. Its like a totally different type of dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is a generic statement that is full of technical flaws but might help explain the problem to someone who has no training.

A cave diver follows what will roughly be called a plan called the rule of thirds. The diver uses 1/3 of the gas supply going in, leaving 1/3 for the exit and 1/3 for emergencies. He or she only a rough estimate of what it will take to get to that first third, so it is hard to say how long it will take to do the full third in and the full third out. The next complication is that in a cave like this, the diver will be doing decompression. That means the diver will spend a period of time doing at least one decompression stop, using an additional tank or tanks left for that purpose. That means that on a normal dive, the diver will often be in the cave longer than the estimated time to use 2/3 of the gas.

Let's say that after that time had passed an alert was raised and someone was near enough with full tanks to get in the water within say 20 minutes, which would be pretty fast. That diver would then have to have the time to get back to him. In most cases, the missing diver would have to have been pretty close to a full return before running into trouble in order for the rescuer to get there in time.

 

[boulderjohn]

A couple weeks ago Edd actually made a save of two divers at Jackson Blue. That is rare. Everything worked just right. Those two divers now know what being above their limits is even if it wasn't
their fault

In that rare case, the divers were not far into the system and an alert about their problem was raised pretty quickly. That meant Edd was able to find them before they were out of air.

 

[DandyDon]

I think antennas are just a good way to get false security and not to mention killing cave conservation.

That was my thought.

And this from the last news story copies here makes no sense....??

Higginbotham was at the springs with his girlfriend, Louise O’Brien and according to the report and O’Brien told authorities that Higginbotham asked her to contact Vortex Springs Underwater Maintenance Eduardo Taran if he didn’t surface in an hour and a half.

She said that after two hours she went to Taran and told her that Higginbotham had plenty of air and not to worry. After another hour of not surfacing O’Brien told Taran that Higginbotham still hadn’t surfaced and said that Taran told her that he had at least five hours left.

That must be some really bad reporting.

 

[mike_s]

supposedly, according to the media reports (WHICH MAY NOT BE ACCURATE), he told her to alert Eduardo if he didn't return in 1.5 hours. She didn't notify Eduardo until the 2 hour point. (2 hours from start of dive time).



from: Mississippi diver dies at Vortex Spring | vortex, dies, diver - ChipleyPaper.com

Higginbotham was at the springs with his girlfriend, ****name removed**** and according to the report and ***name removed*** told authorities that Higginbotham asked her to contact Vortex Springs Underwater Maintenance Eduardo Taran if he didn’t surface in an hour and a half.

She said that after two hours she went to Taran and told her that Higginbotham had plenty of air and not to worry. After another hour of not surfacing O’Brien told Taran that Higginbotham still hadn’t surfaced and said that Taran told her that he had at least five hours left.

After 30 minutes she said she went to look for Taran and was told Taran was looking for Higginbotham. Sunday evening Eduardo found Higginbotham deceased at 1,200 feet into the cave.
​

 

[jwp8363]

I am not saying that Eduardo did not do a great job in finding Larry and bringing him out or that he should have been put into the position of lifeguard without being asked to be before hand by Larry. My concern is just that he was told (according to the news report) by Larrys girlfriend that he left instructions to get help if he did not surface in the allotted time he set. So the gf went and found Eduardo and he told her that Larry was fine and not to worry. And it was not until an additional hour went by that he started to do anything. Like I said, this is all according to the news report, and Eduardo did an awesome recovery job, but if it was taken more seriously in the beginning, it may have had a better outcome. I know that if someone had come to me and said someone was supposed to be back at a certain time and has not come back yet, I would have started a search instead of saying he is fine, don't worry.

 

[ianr33]

I know that if someone had come to me and said someone was supposed to be back at a certain time and has not come back yet, I would have started a search instead of saying he is fine, don't worry.

Starting a search is fine if you just happen to have sidemount tanks with appropriate trimix and deco tanks lying around full. Pretty pointless otherwise.

 

[mike_s]

I am not saying that Eduardo did not do a great job in finding Larry and bringing him out or that he should have been put into the position of lifeguard without being asked to be before hand by Larry. My concern is just that he was told (according to the news report) by Larrys girlfriend that he left instructions to get help if he did not surface in the allotted time he set. So the gf went and found Eduardo and he told her that Larry was fine and not to worry. And it was not until an additional hour went by that he started to do anything. Like I said, this is all according to the news report, and Eduardo did an awesome recovery job, but if it was taken more seriously in the beginning, it may have had a better outcome. I know that if someone had come to me and said someone was supposed to be back at a certain time and has not come back yet, I would have started a search instead of saying he is fine, don't worry.

read Hetland's post #91 this thread.

over breathing, being back so far and depth it would have likely been too late even at the 1.5 hour mark.


Note that Eduardo (or others) doesn't have an "emergency set of cave gear" in a break out glass emergency box at the edge of the springs.