A somewhat sad conversation last night

[danvolker]

I don't like being snubbed at with an implication that since they are DIR certified, they are the only ones doing it right, so everyone else must be doing it wrong. Personally, I think that is wrong.

This is a misconception on the part of people like yourself--and please don't take offense at this---my intention here is only to explain...you are choosing to read something in, that is not there.

First, DIR as a name and a system --related to Tech divers and Cave divers. When the names and rules were coined, there was no relationship with recreational divers or recreational diving whatever. In time, the common sense approach of DIR was shared with the recreational diving world. But a recreational diver had no ability to be upset by an inference that had nothing to do with them.

Now if you hear the term DIR...Doing it Right diving, just exactly why can't you imagine there might be several or many styles that are also right...
There is no DIR message that says it is the ONLY way...it is just that if you are going to dive with a DIR team, then you do use DIR..the DIR way.

When George Irvine coined DIR, it was to explain why his WKPP divers were not constantly dieing in the Wakulla Cave system, like the other dive groups were dying all around north Florida at the time....with the landowners( where caves were) getting close to shutting down all cave diving, due to concerns about deaths on their properties. Those that were dieing were not doing it right.... WKPP "was" Doing it Right... The whole thing is THAT SIMPLE!!!


On a whole separate level, for today....... Even if you knew nothing of the Origin of the term ( which you really should know if you want to be offended by something
You don't have to be Doing it Wrong, just because you are not DIR. Call yourself DIG ( Doing it Good) / DIB ( Doing it Better) / DIS ( Doing it Safer)...and on and on.... Really, how can you not say that you are making yourself a VICTIM by interpreting DIR the way you do.

Additionally, since I am the one that did most of the explaining of DIR to recreational divers in the late 90's to around 2003, I think I get to say what the actual intent was at the time...and it was absolutely not about trying to make everyone think they were bad divers...it was about offering some great common sense ideas, for free, that had been severely tested in extreme conditions, with a spectacular track record. It was to help recreational divers get bigger adventures, more safely, and to help them have more fun... DIR was not offensive, unless some individual wanted to make themself offended by it. DIR was just a name....it was catchy then, and it still is.....

 

[chrpai]

The following is my opinion.... if you don't like it, well I hope to dive with you soon anyways.

What an interesting attempt to say that it's all ignorance on the part of the rec community in taking offense to the term.

Funny thing is I remember being around rec.scuba and scubaboard some 10 years ago and I know for a fact certain blowhards on the internet would infact get in your face and say you were a 'stroke' and that you were going to die because you weren't doing it right. The attitudes, standards and practices were clearly applied to rec divers.

I've tried to steer clear of this conversation but it seems like there is a 'victim' tone here and an attempt to gloss over and otherwise rewrite history. There were clearly some bad actors out there making a segment of the community look less then welcoming. Acknowledge it and move on.

That said, I'll agree with the statement that in my comings and goings with real divers in the real world, that I've never encountered anyone who lived up to the blow hard hatredness that I have on occasion seen online. I have to assume that the biggest jerks online must actually be somewhat likeable in real life.

Anyways, that's all I have to say. I forgive easily, but never quiet forget.

 

[gsk3]

I took the class for the diving skills. [...] What I discovered in the class was the sheer pleasure of diving as a unified team.

Precisely.

 

[chrpai]

If a GUE/UTD Intro/Fundies/Whatever It's Called These Days class ever comes to central TX, you can count me in. But I can't fly to the coast for it at this point.

 

[danvolker]

The following is my opinion.... if you don't like it, well I hope to dive with you soon anyways.

What an interesting attempt to say that it's all ignorance on the part of the rec community in taking offense to the term.

Funny thing is I remember being around rec.scuba and scubaboard some 10 years ago and I know for a fact certain blowhards on the internet would infact get in your face and say you were a 'stroke' and that you were going to die because you weren't doing it right. The attitudes, standards and practices were clearly applied to rec divers.

One thing we can all agree on, is that there were some people that read up on DIR in the late 90's, liked it, read up on WKPP exploits, I assumed they liked this, and then they began "their own" campaigns to beat the "DIR Drum".

So do we DIR divers, get to be victims too

A lot of work went in to trying to keep things about fun and safety and adventure. It was not cool that some wannabe DIR's did the whole "you're gonna die thing"....But as a communication style, this did not come from me, and not from George ( who did NOT have bad things to say about recreational divers....In fact, he liked quoting from the first pages of the PADI OW manual when talking to tech and Cave agencies he thought were making huge mistakes.)

I've tried to steer clear of this conversation but it seems like there is a 'victim' tone here and an attempt to gloss over and otherwise rewrite history. There were clearly some bad actors out there making a segment of the community look less then welcoming. Acknowledge it and move on.

The thing about the history we are discussing here, is that it is dealing with a movement that actually invented itself on the Internet. DIR began in Wakulla, but the DIR explosion on the internet, only took it's basics from the WKPP....hundreds of divers that "found" DIR, became infused with a religious fervor, to spread the word. Unfortunately, there was no directing of this as it was springing up all over, and each new speaker was basing their DIR view on the DIR video, or on rants from the Tech or cavers list...Probably 3/4th of this was about having fun doing the WWF Wrestling thing they saw George had done.....like kids that saw WWF on TV, and now wanted to enjoy this themselves .... The late 90's had a very different ambience than Scubaboard today....Back around 97, Rec.scuba was the 1000 lb Gorilla of recreational diving on the Internet, and Flame wars were the preferred method of communicating. Epic Battles ran sometimes for months, and this was no place for the faint of heart. These threads could be brutal....
It just so happens, that most of the topics of the big rec.scuba wars were neutered over the last decade, and SB made heroic efforts to prevent the vitriol that once polluted rec.scuba. DIR seems one of the few topics that has retained some of the fire. But even this is finally changing. SB is helping keep things calmer and more fun, GUE is helping, and the DIR community is helping.

 

[JamesK]

Dan, you're my hero! LMAO!!!!!

Seriously though. Very well said.

 

[chrpai]

Dan,
I'd love to believe your DIR black flag theory that all the hatred came from DIR wannabies, but let's discuss MHK. Was he not a bonified card carraying GUE/DIR instructor?

I just did a google seach for "MHK rec.scuba" and the first hit didn't let me down. ( Sadly...)


For the record, I'm not clean in any of this either. For those who don't know, I was banned from this board for a number of years because I would fight fire with fire. So I'm not trying to blame anyone, I just want to remember history the way it actually was.

 

[danvolker]

Dan,
I'd love to believe your DIR black flag theory that all the hatred came from DIR wannabies, but let's discuss MHK. Was he not a bonified card carraying GUE/DIR instructor?

I just did a google seach for "MHK rec.scuba" and the first hit didn't let me down. ( Sadly...)

MHK is a great example of what was happening on rec.scuba.
For years, MHK led the contingent of divers that ENJOYED/wanted to call themselves strokes, and who constantly blasted DIR on rec.scuba.

MHK would pick fights with me constantly on rec.scuba, and he was a powerful combatant.
He would be loud, mean, and enjoyed proving to everyone how stupid DIR was.

Then one day, the thread changed just enough, and I got MHK to agree to do a dive with George, Bill and I in person.....and to go through all the DIR issues in person.....

He agreed and flew to South Florida from Ca. We dove with him, he was shocked at how friendly George was in real life, and at the lengths he would go to in explaining his ideas in detail.

MHK had an epiphany after this trip, and soon announced to rec.scuba that he was going from Stroke to DIR !

He did become an instructor, and he did gain great skills.....He never did lose the enjoyment of flaming people on the internet, and of creating battles. He just stopped aiming them at me, and began aiming them at all the people I used to be in arguements with
Now, if I was more angelic, I suppose I would have been upset that MHK was being mean to his old friends. And maybe I should have gotten in the middle of these, and tried to get him to simmer down....but there was just something so sweet about having the top Stroke of the 90's, by popular consensus, now blasting all the guys that used to be blasting me and the DIR camp..... So I guess I was more silent for a few years regarding MHK rants, than I should have been

 

[chrpai]

Instead I'd say he set the tone for the next generation of DIR / DIR wannabies who then emulated their leader... and all of that contributes to the initial comment of someone thinking that they didn't want to hang around GUE divers

I could name more names but I've had enough going down this memory lane. For me, the point is I retired from diving for about 6 years when I found out my wife had cancer and have only recently returned to the activity that I love. I now dive a BP/W and long hose and I'm working on being a better diver. Am I 'DIR'? Oh I guess you haven't seen my BMI numbers....

 

[danvolker]

Dan,
I'd love to believe your DIR black flag theory that all the hatred came from DIR wannabies, but let's discuss MHK. Was he not a bonified card carraying GUE/DIR instructor?

I just did a google seach for "MHK rec.scuba" and the first hit didn't let me down. ( Sadly...)


For the record, I'm not clean in any of this either. For those who don't know, I was banned from this board for a number of years because I would fight fire with fire. So I'm not trying to blame anyone, I just want to remember history the way it actually was.

Also on the particular cite or post by MHK.....this Black guy was in the top 3 of the most notoriously dangerous people on rec.scuba for a recreational diver to listen to....He was in horrific battles with EVERYONE on rec.scuba ( DIR and Strokes alike) ....I am pretty sure he ended up as a deep and foolish death statistic, but someone else will probably remember better....he did end up just "not being there" anymore, that much I am sure of.