A somewhat sad conversation last night

[PfcAJ]

Standardization, scalability, beginning with the end in mind (as expressed in DIR) to start. But this is a tangent better pursued in a different thread as it doesn't pertain to the topic at hand.

Again, I don't have a beef with the regime at all. I like it for what it is. I'm just aware that there are different perspectives out there and that they also have validity. Like many have expressed in the thread so far: If it's your thing great, enjoy; just remember that others have their thing too and may feel as strongly about their choices as you do. If I present an alternative POV it is not out of disrespect but rather to expand upon and challenge beliefs in the Greek sense of the term.. argument.

Sure it pertains. All of that stuff is great for a rec diver. Standardization is what makes the whole 'team diving' thing work so smoothly, and the scalability means you don't have to relearn stuff should you decide to go on to more advanced forms of diving. How is that a bad thing, again?

 

[Kevrumbo]

Dan,
I'd love to believe your DIR black flag theory that all the hatred came from DIR wannabies, but let's discuss MHK. Was he not a bonified card carraying GUE/DIR instructor?

I just did a google seach for "MHK rec.scuba" and the first hit didn't let me down. ( Sadly...)


For the record, I'm not clean in any of this either. For those who don't know, I was banned from this board for a number of years because I would fight fire with fire. So I'm not trying to blame anyone, I just want to remember history the way it actually was.

MHK is a great example of what was happening on rec.scuba.
For years, MHK led the contingent of divers that ENJOYED/wanted to call themselves strokes, and who constantly blasted DIR on rec.scuba.

MHK would pick fights with me constantly on rec.scuba, and he was a powerful combatant.
He would be loud, mean, and enjoyed proving to everyone how stupid DIR was.

Then one day, the thread changed just enough, and I got MHK to agree to do a dive with George, Bill and I in person.....and to go through all the DIR issues in person.....

He agreed and flew to South Florida from Ca. We dove with him, he was shocked at how friendly George was in real life, and at the lengths he would go to in explaining his ideas in detail.

MHK had an epiphany after this trip, and soon announced to rec.scuba that he was going from Stroke to DIR !

He did become an instructor, and he did gain great skills.....He never did lose the enjoyment of flaming people on the internet, and of creating battles. He just stopped aiming them at me, and began aiming them at all the people I used to be in arguements with
Now, if I was more angelic, I suppose I would have been upset that MHK was being mean to his old friends. And maybe I should have gotten in the middle of these, and tried to get him to simmer down....but there was just something so sweet about having the top Stroke of the 90's, by popular consensus, now blasting all the guys that used to be blasting me and the DIR camp..... So I guess I was more silent for a few years regarding MHK rants, than I should have been

The Epiphany of MHK (a former Old School NE Wrecker). . .

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/102324-exactly-6-years-ago-today.html

(also recounted in McMurray's Deep Descent, p.235 --Michael Kane on the loss of wreckdiver Charlie McGurr. . .)

​

 

[chrpai]

I think this link will work better:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/102324-exactly-6-years-ago-today.html

 

[danvolker]

....and while you could read a post by MHK blasting Dr Black, and from this come away thinking you have MHK pegged...in person, MHK was an amazing character, larger than life, and one of the most enjoyable people to dive or talk with you could ever meet. And he really did care about helping people.............And of course, how would this person today reading this, even know how many well known names on rec.scuba had just died foolish deaths on dives they did un-safely....the things any of us, AT THAT TIME, would say in attempting to prevent yet one more death, are things we DO NOT NEED TO SAY TODAY.

Arthur's post is important, because it is the unspoken sentiment brimming in so many dive shops all over America. So many divers have taken offense, to discussions that had nothing to do with them, about people they are nothing like, and they don't even know what DIR really meant when it was created.

DIR is NOT what they think it is. That message does need to get out.

 

[lowviz]

DIR "history" is a damn good read, love it. Also love reading about the Wahoo and the Seeker on the NE Atlantic ocean. With an open mind it is sorta kinda the same thing.


IRL, I have never been treated poorly by any DIR practitioner, ever. Can't same the same for "all the rest". So I see myself as DIR neutral, DIR is all or nothing and I just can't seem to get infected...

Too busy getting trim squared away to worry about George. But then George doesn't know or care about me. Neither does Tom, or John, or Ralph, or Brian, or Hal, or...



But I'm good with that, they're busy and so am I.

 

[DaleC]

Sure it pertains. All of that stuff is great for a rec diver. Standardization is what makes the whole 'team diving' thing work so smoothly, and the scalability means you don't have to relearn stuff should you decide to go on to more advanced forms of diving. How is that a bad thing, again?

Not what I said.

"As well, many of the concepts learned are based on a progression towards technical diving. While they may still be applicable in the rec arena they are not designed to be optimal there. So if you are only taking fundies to improve your skills you are also learning some things that were never designed to be applied solely to rec diving."

If you only intend to dive with like minded and equipped recreational divers who all aspire to one day be technical divers and all have no interest in anything other than one limited regime then I'll agree with you. However, if you live in the real world and plan to dive with the other 99% and don't hobble yourself with artificial constructs never primarily intended for rec OW diving then I won't.

Recreational diving is a wide open mix of history, orientation and culture, with a risk/commitment level that allows for a variety of successful approaches. In this arena DIR is only one of them and no better suited than many others. I think I could argue that in such an arena (if that's where one is going to primarily dive) standardization, scalability and beginning with the end in mind are of little consequence. I would also argue that an independent approach could be just as, or more, valuable than the team approach when you have no control over the partners you may be buddied with - which is a reality for probably more rec divers than there are DIR divers worldwide.

But again, perhaps another thread.

 

[TSandM]

It IS a system that works best when everybody is on the same page. But I've never found any downside to the way I dive when I dive with people who don't subscribe to the system. We just may not handle things the same way as I would with similarly trained buddies.

The one exception I can think of is that I would consider carrying an auxiliary gas supply if I traveled a lot and dove off boats without a travel companion.

I've never felt as though I had "hobbled myself with artificial constructs never primarily intended for rec OW diving".

 

[gypsyjim]

For myself, taking Fundies was just another development in my diving. Adopting new gear, and trying out variations and techniques that are new to me is, to me, part of what diving is all about. Since my first dives in 1/4 inch neoprene, with only a single hose, no SPG or BCD, this sport has been in a state of continual change and evolution, and I enjoy the chance to grow with our sport as it evolves.

I am not primarily interested in "tech", and may never be, but nothing I learned in the GUE class with Bob Sherwood did not work for me in regular recreational diving too, and the training and new choices in gear do leave doors open for me to choose many different paths.

I simply saw divers who I had come to know threw SB discussions, demonstrating a level of skill in the water that I wanted for myself, and even in my typical rec gear set up, splits, snorkel and all, I found that I was welcomed to watch and learn as they practiced and trained. As I tried out various gear changes and approaches during a primer class I took with Bob I began to appreciate the reasoning and the efficiency of the gear, and began adjusting my rig, and then did the Fundies, which even having not "passed", gave me skills I value greatly, and that have improved my enjoyment of our sport immensely.

 

[The Chairman]

It IS a system that works best when everybody is on the same page.

But really, that can be said about most any system. I really appreciate any system that makes diving safer and more enjoyable. Fortunately, there are several to choose from as each provides benefits as well as some shortcomings. What is important is to maintain the integrity of the system you choose. Changing the rules mid dive almost always increases the risk both to you and your buddy. Having a buddy that also dives the way you do helps you to refine your system and maintain the proper vigilance. Personally, I have never felt the need to label myself except in jest. I'll probably remain that way.

 

[gypsyjim]

Safe diving is not about labels, in my opinion. It is about skills, communication, experience and wise choices.

The whole DIR idea is aimed at developing a team unified approach to diving. Nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with going another route, as long as the result is safe diving for you, and those around you.

I do not see myself as DIR in any way, but most divers could not tell that by my gear choices. The gear, the setup, and the techniques all made sense, so I adopted them, but not any dam label.