A somewhat sad conversation last night

[chrpai]

I think this is what you are looking for:

Dr. Michael Black

Now that I think about it, I remember this. I also remember AirHog (met him and Kimber in 2003) dying and Kimber getting bent.

 

[lamont]

I've tried to steer clear of this conversation but it seems like there is a 'victim' tone here and an attempt to gloss over and otherwise rewrite history. There were clearly some bad actors out there making a segment of the community look less then welcoming. Acknowledge it and move on.

Love to move on.

Keeps on coming up over and over again on internet forums though.

George is no longer associated with GUE or WKPP and GUE has dropped the 'DIR' moniker entirely. Yet we're still talking about flamewars from a decade ago.

---------- Post added ----------

Instead I'd say he set the tone for the next generation of DIR / DIR wannabies who then emulated their leader... and all of that contributes to the initial comment of someone thinking that they didn't want to hang around GUE divers

I could name more names but I've had enough going down this memory lane. For me, the point is I retired from diving for about 6 years when I found out my wife had cancer and have only recently returned to the activity that I love. I now dive a BP/W and long hose and I'm working on being a better diver. Am I 'DIR'? Oh I guess you haven't seen my BMI numbers....

You know there are GUE instructors now who started diving (basic open water dive #1) long after MHK disappeared from both GUE and the internet, and will have no idea what you're talking about...

I got certified in 2003, which is nearly an entire decade ago now, and I don't know anything about the rec.scuba flamewars, and while MHK made some posts on SB back when i was a newbie, he wasn't remotely formative for me. I got the tail end of George's rants when the AG rift happened and that's about it for my exposure to the sordid history. All the kids taking fundies these days have /no/ idea what you're talking about at all...

 

[chrpai]

I suspect at least one person did understand otherwise I don't think this thread would exist. Reputations can be hard to live down.

Otherwise I agree with you. I've moved on but I try not to forget the mistakes of the past. My own included.

 

[Griffo]

This thread kind of amuses me. I've been involved in god knows how many flame wars on multiple different forums and mailing lists over too many years. I've moderated forums with over half a million members. I've had to help fend of numerous legal threats, death threats, DoS attacks. I remember moderating "hot" topics that were recieving an average of one new post every second for hours at a time.

But never, ever, have I ever seen such a tightly held burning anger and resentment for stuff that was posted a decade ago. I was told that the tech diving community could be very bitchy, but I never imagined. Me thinks some people need to leave the keyboard, smoke the peace pipe, and go for a nice relaxing dive together.

 

[mathauck0814]

Me thinks some people need to leave the keyboard, smoke the peace pipe, and go for a nice relaxing dive together.

I'd recommend the pipe for after the dive.

 

[TSandM]

I remember sitting in Michael Kane's living room, and having him tell me that story, Dan. It's just such a beautiful example of the fact that it's so easy to fight with people from behind a keyboard, and real life is so different.

Which brings me back to the post that started this thread, oh so long ago . . . which was that real life is different, and that my young friend found that out. No matter what somebody did or wrote more than a decade ago somewhere, at least the GUE community in Seattle is made up of a bunch of nice people who love to go diving and having folks who are interested in how we go about it -- or even just folks who want to practice skills and work on better diving -- come and join us.

 

[chrpai]

Totally agree and that's the danger of the internet. For everyone who has the joy of meeting a dover in real life and understanding the real person, thousands more will get a different, more jaded impression of their character.

 

[DaleC]

Such as what, exactly?

Standardization, scalability, beginning with the end in mind (as expressed in DIR) to start. But this is a tangent better pursued in a different thread as it doesn't pertain to the topic at hand.

Again, I don't have a beef with the regime at all. I like it for what it is. I'm just aware that there are different perspectives out there and that they also have validity. Like many have expressed in the thread so far: If it's your thing great, enjoy; just remember that others have their thing too and may feel as strongly about their choices as you do. If I present an alternative POV it is not out of disrespect but rather to expand upon and challenge beliefs in the Greek sense of the term.. argument.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Dan,
I'd love to believe your DIR black flag theory that all the hatred came from DIR wannabies, but let's discuss MHK. Was he not a bonified card carraying GUE/DIR instructor?

I just did a google seach for "MHK rec.scuba" and the first hit didn't let me down. ( Sadly...)


For the record, I'm not clean in any of this either. For those who don't know, I was banned from this board for a number of years because I would fight fire with fire. So I'm not trying to blame anyone, I just want to remember history the way it actually was.

Damn, that was 12 years ago. I met Michael about two years after that was posted ... having no prior history with the guy, but back then I wasn't particularly sympathetic to DIR (for other reasons) ... the dude invited me to sit in on a class he was teaching. Never mind that I was in split fins, a TUSA BCD and a short hose reg ... I think he just recognized someone who loved to scuba dive. So I sat and listened for a while ... I think that got me started me on a more open-minded path toward DIR.

Sure hope someone doesn't go digging up some of my early posts here ... I'd hate to have to live them down ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

Open minded is the key word. I feel fortunate that I am open minded towards this approach to diving as well as to other pathways. I love learning everything I can about diving no matter the source. The criticism might be made that sometimes it appears some DIR divers are not open minded to other pathways. An equal argument could be made that sometimes other divers are not open minded towards DIR.

Being open minded or moderate isn't always easy to do - especially if one feels strongly about their cause. It requires ego deflation and rejection of the good/evil right/wrong black/white us/them dichotomy.

As a non professional, non agency oriented diver my online "voice" may sometimes appear to be anti those things but it isn't. It's just different. It figure it's valid to have different voices on the board so that the whole spectrum of diving can be represented in discussions.