Dive operator: "We won't let you ..."

[Quero]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

As this thread does not deal with an accident or a diving incident but rather a question regarding training and appropriateness of deep dives for particular divers, it has been moved from the A&I forum to Basic Scuba.

---

 

[RJP]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

As this thread does not deal with an accident or a diving incident but rather a question regarding training and appropriateness of deep dives for particular divers, it has been moved from the A&I forum to Basic Scuba.

---

And hopefully it WON'T!

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

The response from the dive op is exactly what I like to hear, up front and honest.
Good dive ops know how to stay on a line someplace between the taxi service and the scuba police.
Many divers hone their skills by progressively making deeper and more challenging dives, not just by a class or certification.

 

[shmuggy]

I found that after getting my basic Open Water cert that I was able to dive deep and there were no issues. The best thing to make you more proficient is more diving - things that make some dives dicier than other can also occur at more shallow depth-ie a ripping current- so the most important thing is that you develop more skills and confidence through more diving. It sounds like this operator will do what all of them should- check your diving skills out on the first dive- then if they tell you that you are not ready to do deeper or more challenging diving- you should take their advice. I would make sure to talk with the DM about this at the dock- I wouldn't count on the person making the reservation to pass the info along.

 

[flots am]

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

What do people think of the exchange between me and a certain dive operator? We are thinking of going there but we want to make sure the dives are appropriate for us. My query first, followed by their response:

The exchange between you and the dive op is mostly irrelevant. Any time you're concerned that you might not be qualified for a dive, you already have the answer, and the answer is "no".

There are dive ops all over the world who for $100 more or less will happily take you to places you shouldn't be and tell you "everything will be fine" Sometimes they're right. Sometimes the dive ends up in the Accidents and Incidents section on SB.

There are also ops that will tell you flat-out "no", however you can't count on everybody having this level of honesty, so until you get a better handle on your skills and the available dives, I'd suggest erring on the side of caution. Just because someone will "let you" do something doesn't mean it's actually safe or appropriate. Barring any global ecological disasters, the sharks will still be there in a few years, and you'll have a much better handle on what kind of dives you like and what you're capable of safely handling. At that point, you can just sign up for the dives and know what you're getting into.

flots.

 

[eelnoraa]

I am still confused. So you did the deep dive in AOW, but you are not deep dive specialty certified, right? If so, you did the deep portion of AOW already. If you you didn't do any deep dive in your AOW, you should go and demand for a refund.

Yes we are AOW certified and no, we did not do the Deep Dive specialty.

The dive ops response is actually quite reasonable. What they will do on the day you are on their boat is 1) to go to a shallower site on the first dive, observe your dive, at least to the best they can. Then depend on what they think, they will venture to the deeper sites. Or 2) they will just spend time in shallow site all day, which trust me, the rest of the boat is not going to be happy.

You are in San francisco, so you are mostly like to be boat diving off Monterey sites. Diving off monterey can be challenge. If you have been shore diving there, you should know. On boat dive, you want to be even more conservative on your dive plan, time, turn pressure, end pressure, buddy staying together ... If you haven't been diving in Monterey or similar places at all, then I would recommend do a few shore dives to get used the condition first, other wise, you boat charter isn't going to be fun. Everyone has to start somewhere, the more prepare you are, the more fun you will have.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

What do people think of the exchange between me and a certain dive operator? We are thinking of going there but we want to make sure the dives are appropriate for us. My query first, followed by their response:



My query: We are novice divers, about 50 dives each. We did the AOW class but not the "Deep Diving" portion. It seems to me from reading your website that several dive sites would be better done if we did get that deeper experience before coming. We would really like to see some sharks and other larger creatures so I guess that deep diving cert is important - ?


Their response: Wedo not require an AOW certification incl. the deep adventure dive to let you do Deep Dives. Once the dive crew has seen you in the water diving and feels comfortable with your diving skills, you will certainly be able to do the deeper dives as well.
We will never put you in a situation you are not comfortable with and would work with you before you go on a deep dive.



Thanks in advance for your comments.

- Bill

Their reply sounds like a very common reply--I don't see anything unusual about it.

How deep are the dives you are inquiring about? As far as I understand, the concensus among dive cert agencies seems to be that anything up to about 60 feet is suitable for most OW/AOW divers. Of course, if you yourself don't feel comfortable with the proposed depth, then that's all that matters, not some arbitrary depth "limit." It shouldn't matter whether the dive op encourages you to do the dive. It's how YOU feel about it.

Does the dive op offer the option of hiring a private divemaster to accompany you? That would be one way to gain some more experience with the depth in question.

 

[Doubler]

There are places in this world that are very shallow with sharks. Places in the Bahamas come to mind.

 

[spectrum]

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

What do people think of the exchange between me and a certain dive operator? We are thinking of going there but we want to make sure the dives are appropriate for us. My query first, followed by their response:



My query: We are novice divers, about 50 dives each. We did the AOW class but not the "Deep Diving" portion. It seems to me from reading your website that several dive sites would be better done if we did get that deeper experience before coming. We would really like to see some sharks and other larger creatures so I guess that deep diving cert is important - ?


Their response: Wedo not require an AOW certification incl. the deep adventure dive to let you do Deep Dives. Once the dive crew has seen you in the water diving and feels comfortable with your diving skills, you will certainly be able to do the deeper dives as well.
We will never put you in a situation you are not comfortable with and would work with you before you go on a deep dive.



Thanks in advance for your comments.

- Bill

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

Yes we are AOW certified and no, we did not do the Deep Dive specialty.

I am not looking to have my hand held. I am looking to go on dives that we enjoy that are consistent with our skills and training. I thought it was suspicious that the operator would say that they might lead us on deep dives without that training. Do you?

- Bill

So you have done AOW including a deep dive but not a stand alone deep specialty. From a common requirements that AOW card is all that most care about despite it being a a very superficial treatment of the topic. In a good many cases it's the common ground that insurance companies can manage around. It makes an attempt to keep those that are clueless away from certain sites. I don't have any statistics but a very small percentage go on to take a deep specialty unless they are on their way to something more advanced. What is in between is paying your dues with a gradual progression deeper and deeper.

This puts you in a situation of being theoretically as qualified as a good many other divers that will be down there with you. Many AOW deep dives (to use your words) lead you by the hand as you experience something beyond 60 feet. In and of itself does this prepare you for you planned vacation diving? I don't know. You and the rest of your party need to look in the mirror and consider gas planning, awareness, overall buddy skills since these dives will turn the importance up a notch. If any aspect of completing the dive relies on the DM I would start having second thoughts. If the bunch of you feel you have your act together then have fun. You don't need to be aces but you need to know enough to answer the question for yourself.

The operator will be able to filter divers based on performance on shallower sites but do you want to count on that?

Voice of reason.... Thousands of divers with comparable skill are doing this very thing every day. There is an occasional incident or accident and plenty of close calls and lucky moments we hardly hear about. With a professional staff and many fellow divers in warm clear water a lot of the worst cases risks are reduced but your will still be along way from the surface.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I am still confused. So you did the deep dive in AOW, but you are not deep dive specialty certified, right? If so, you did the deep portion of AOW already. If you you didn't do any deep dive in your AOW, you should go and demand for a refund.

SSI's AOW card requires 4 specialties and 24 OW dives prior to the "course".

There is no requirement that any of the specialties be a deep specialty. There is in fact a lot more to life than PADI certs, and the PADI approach is not the only approach. I actually prefer the SSI approach as it at least ensures 25 post OW cert dives before being given an "advanced" OW cert - a term that's pretty laughable with 25 or 30 dives, let alone the 10 you could have with a PADI AOW cert.

I got my AOW cert long after I'd acquired the skills as I needed the card as an insurance company mandated pre-req for some advanced technical training. In effect, I and the shop owner I worked with and dove with on a weekly basis, did our usual deep, cold water, low viz, dry suit wreck dives using nitrox and after a weekend of diving he signed me off with deep, dry suit, nitrox and wreck specialties to qualify for the AOW card. The choices were strategic to ensure ability to get nitrox fills, dry suit rentals if mine failed, wreck to more or less qualify for advanced wreck later and deep just because most people expect that - but limited viz could have replaced the deep specialty for the purpose of the AOW card. We were also at altitude so altitude diving was an option as was navigation, search and recovery, equipment techniques, photography, etc.

That said, regardless of agency it's just a card and the real learning and skill development comes from actual diving experience and a progressive expansion of skills in different environments.