A question about the devils eye/ear entrances

[DA Aquamaster]

I think you misunderestimate me [sic]

Riddle me this:

Who is more reckless, ignorant and stupid? A diver who sees a cave, gets an idea in the middle of a dive, and goes in or a diver who sees a cave and has an idea to go in, goes home and starts pulling up maps and charts, videos of other people diving that particular cave and even posts on a forum to get the "lay of the land" from people who have been in that particular cave before, wades through all the useless replies like yours, gets the gems of good information about the cave, then armed with that information makes an informed decision whether or not to just go ahead and do it, or take a cavern class before doing it, or whether to do it at all?

No, it probably won't be me you read about drowning in the devils ear next month or next year, it will be the guy who is sitting around now thinking about something completely different and will have the same idea I did but instead of researching he will just do it.

It really depends on what you do next.

If you decide to take a class then you made a good choice. However the less obvious risk here is that you read a lot of stuff, study a lot of maps and delude yourself into thinking you are really prepared. If you do that what will determine whether or not you die will mostly be luck.

I don't believe in or rely on luck as I've come to realize that the more I train and the more experience I gain, the less I ever have to rely on luck.

---------- Post added November 20th, 2012 at 02:36 PM ----------

DA, you are right, but shopping for a bargain basement price is not a good idea either. Interview instructors. Talk to everyone you can. Then make your decision. Cost should not play in to it. However I still stand by my statement of if an instructor does not value their time, I do not value it. Of course that is a generalization though.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you when it comes to cave training. And in reality the price differences we are talking about are $50-$100 bucks per class. They are not major differences or savings, and certainly not enough for a diver to use as the basis for a decision.

I advise most divers looking for an instructor to find one with a philosophy and teaching style they are comfortable with and use that as the primary basis for their selection.

Where I get a little peeved is in the often $1500 plus cost for normoxic and hypoxic trimix classes where the academics are minimal, the bottle management skills have already been taught at the AN/DP level (if you took a 2 deco gas class), and where only 3-4 dives are involved for each course. Both courses should not cost more than $2,000 in total.

One could argue that AN/DP should cost more and I have no issue with that, but gouging at the trimix level is a bit counter productive.

 

[JamesK]

DA,

You and I need I dive together one day.

 

[smokin3000gt]

I think you misunderestimate me

[sic]

Riddle me this:

Who is more reckless, ignorant and stupid? A diver who sees a cave, gets an idea in the middle of a dive, and goes in or a diver who sees a cave and has an idea to go in, goes home and starts pulling up maps and charts, videos of other people diving that particular cave and even posts on a forum to get the "lay of the land" from people who have been in that particular cave before, wades through all the useless replies like yours, gets the gems of good information about the cave, then armed with that information makes an informed decision whether or not to just go ahead and do it, or take a cavern class before doing it, or whether to do it at all?

No, it probably won't be me you read about drowning in the devils ear next month or next year, it will be the guy who is sitting around now thinking about something completely different and will have the same idea I did but instead of researching he will just do it.

Well TBH, I figured after 15 pages of divers with cave experience and experience in this particular cave you are asking about all saying the same thing:
NO!! DO NOT ATTEMPT IT!! IT'S A DEATH WISH WITH YOUR LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE!!LEARN TO CAVE DIVE FIRST!

Was enough for you to get your answer.

As far as your riddle.. a diver who gets the idea to go cave diving in the middle of a dive is no less reckless, ignorant, or stupid then the diver who gathered information, asked about it, was told in black and white not to do it without proper training and his bullheaded stubborn ass does it anyways (and drags a 'friend' along with him). Without help because he is more afraid of stranger danger (even if they are reputable members on here) then diving beyond his abilities.

I mean, what did it take before you were even OPEN to the idea of taking a class? About 10+ pages of big red warning flags, half a dozen people offering to meet and dive with you, and FREE classes before you even gave a single thought to getting proper training.

You asked a legitimate question and nothing wrong with that at all, but it was answered on the first page. Then you didn't like the answer you got so you copped an attitude towards everyone like a teenager who is pissed off about his curfew.

Here's a riddle for you: There are two dead divers. Which one was more reckless, ignorant, and stupid?

Answer: It doesn't matter, they're both dead.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA,

You and I need I dive together one day.

We're scheduled to be in N FL between Christmas and New Years. Marci knows the exact dates - I just maintain the gear.

 

[Ayisha]

I don't know if you mean me or not, but my offer goes out to anyone that wants to dive. Cavern certified or not. We can dive to your limits and training and I can give you video of your dive so you can critique yourself.

So we don't have to act crazy and hell-bent to get some good mentoring? Maybe even a free cavern course from Peter? Dang, I wish I lived in Florida.

Another very gracious offer. James, your dedication and concern, along with Rich and Peter, is very impressive.

Edit: I'm waiting for Steve Lewis to make a similar offer for Toronto. JK

 

[BDSC]

You're one of the best I've ever seen SWAMPY!

 

[Akroedge540]

I think you misunderestimate me [sic]

Riddle me this:

Who is more reckless, ignorant and stupid? A diver who sees a cave, gets an idea in the middle of a dive, and goes in or a diver who sees a cave and has an idea to go in, goes home and starts pulling up maps and charts, videos of other people diving that particular cave and even posts on a forum to get the "lay of the land" from people who have been in that particular cave before, wades through all the useless replies like yours, gets the gems of good information about the cave, then armed with that information makes an informed decision whether or not to just go ahead and do it, or take a cavern class before doing it, or whether to do it at all?

No, it probably won't be me you read about drowning in the devils ear next month or next year, it will be the guy who is sitting around now thinking about something completely different and will have the same idea I did but instead of researching he will just do it.

All of the videos,advice,maps,thinking and ideas won't help you one bit when your lost in zero vis, gas supply dwindling, and you drop your reel. Sure a line is a WAY out. But when you find it, rather IF you find it how do you know the way? Can you be completely certain the reel didn't unwind a bunch while you were trying to fix whatever problem you had that caused you to drop it? Since your a superhero you'll probably go in with a bunch of bottles right? Most definitely! Because you've thought of that too right? Sure! Maybe the epiphany will come when you can't find the regs because your caught up in your line, or plastered in a hole due to being in high flow and you've lost control. Check this video out on YouTube "a deceptively easy way to die"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVmqK5YZuxM&feature=youtube_gdata_player.

But surely you've seen that one.

Get some cave training, it'll be a humbling experience even in a mud hole.

 

[Superlyte27]

You're one of the best I've ever seen SWAMPY!

I might agree with you. I'm still uncertain.

 

[Codefox]

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole thread is that this guy might be a student at the University of Florida and I know that the requirements for getting into my alma mater are pretty high.

I got lost in an above ground cave once. It was supposedly a simple thing to go in and come back out. The map was totally unreadable to us (we had no training) and between the 3 of us we had 2 lights. It was pretty stupid to do though I knew so little about caving I didn't even know I was doing anything wrong. I thought the guys with me were experienced and it turned out they had as much experience as me. It was pretty scary and we weren't exactly about to run out of air. That experience pretty much scared me off of ever considering cave diving. Or spelunking at all for that matter. You think you'll know the way but you won't and you'll be dead before you know you made a wrong turn.

 

[JamesK]

We're scheduled to be in N FL between Christmas and New Years. Marci knows the exact dates - I just maintain the gear.

Great. Let me know.

---------- Post added November 20th, 2012 at 03:17 PM ----------

So we don't have to act crazy and hell-bent to get some good mentoring? Maybe even a free cavern course from Peter? Dang, I wish I lived in Florida.

Another very gracious offer. James, your dedication and concern, along with Rich and Peter, is very impressive.

Edit: I'm waiting for Steve Lewis to make a similar offer for Toronto. JK

Well it seems like half of Canada is here right now, with more coming. Catch a ride with them. LOL.