DevonDiver
N/A
1) Most/many recreational divers rely on generic holiday insurance for diving.
2) Other divers may not have access to DAN and/or may be recommended alternatives on a regional basis (the Westfield one I quoted is v.popular in the UK).
3) We have not concluded DAN's policy on overhead environment - especially in relationship with diving qualifications.
4) As you said, people use DAN to dive caves in Florida - but those people are certified cave divers. The point being, certification versus activity.
5) Most other insurance providers do specifically exclude cave/cavern diving from their regular insurance - requiring addendum policies/charges for that coverage.
DAN is a great insurance provider, but they are still under-written by regionally based insurance companies. This means there IS variation regionally... and also, there is fine print/clauses that may not necessarily be stated in the handbook (although DAN may still honor the basis agreement).
From the quote below, you can see that DAN Asia-Pacific and DAN Europe could present complications for an AOW diver doing a 'by definition' cavern/cave dive. DAN USA might not - but, but that isn't certain, as the underlying caveat with any insurance, including DAN, is that the policy holder needs to contact/confirm such issues with the provider. In the case of DAN USA, it may be a case of omission from the published schedules... or it may be that they have a very widely scoped policy. Unless you know for sure... it's your responsibility to confirm it... not DAN's.
Here's an interesting clause, stated by DAN (albeit from their Asia-Pacific regional):
In the case of "reasonably knowing"... I suspect that agency 'rules'...and what is taught to divers on courses (i.e. the safe diving practices and qualification relevant recommendations) would be the determining factor. DAN is quite clear in supporting those practices and recommendations - and that is evident/illustrated throughout their websites.
Check out this Policy Exclusion from DAN Europe... it's quite specific:
In essence, when you apply for insurance, you declare material fact about your diving circumstances. If you state that you are an AOW diver, that becomes a declaration that you will be be doing AOW dives... not cave or cavern dives. Not declaring that you will do cave dives, and then doing cave dives, can void your insurance. Again... the wording used specifically mentions 'safe practices', advised by 'diving bodies'.
In addition, DAN Europe specifically excludes cave diving from it's 'search and recovery' insurance schedule: http://www.daneurope.org/web/guest/free-student-cover1 So...if the student needs rescuing from the cave - any expenses accrued wouldn't be paid via insurance.
So.... even whilst we agree that DAN is possibly the most flexible and diver-friendly insurance provider - there are still huge discrepancies in the policy exclusions/small-print between different regions (or is there? is it just ommission of detail in the certificate/schedule?). The point being - the individual needs to CHECK... and also to factor this into a decision whether to conduct the dive.
For the diver.... exceeding your qualification, especially in respect to cave/cavern dives... presents the risk of invalidating your insurance.
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Also, as an off-topic aside (but relevant for yourself, as you are a technical diver)... DAN does have policy exclusions that differentiate between recreational and technical diving. There may be variation regionally, but this is what the DAN Europe policy states:
2) Other divers may not have access to DAN and/or may be recommended alternatives on a regional basis (the Westfield one I quoted is v.popular in the UK).
3) We have not concluded DAN's policy on overhead environment - especially in relationship with diving qualifications.
4) As you said, people use DAN to dive caves in Florida - but those people are certified cave divers. The point being, certification versus activity.
5) Most other insurance providers do specifically exclude cave/cavern diving from their regular insurance - requiring addendum policies/charges for that coverage.
DAN is a great insurance provider, but they are still under-written by regionally based insurance companies. This means there IS variation regionally... and also, there is fine print/clauses that may not necessarily be stated in the handbook (although DAN may still honor the basis agreement).
From the quote below, you can see that DAN Asia-Pacific and DAN Europe could present complications for an AOW diver doing a 'by definition' cavern/cave dive. DAN USA might not - but, but that isn't certain, as the underlying caveat with any insurance, including DAN, is that the policy holder needs to contact/confirm such issues with the provider. In the case of DAN USA, it may be a case of omission from the published schedules... or it may be that they have a very widely scoped policy. Unless you know for sure... it's your responsibility to confirm it... not DAN's.
Here's an interesting clause, stated by DAN (albeit from their Asia-Pacific regional):
Undertaking a dive, a Repetitive Dive Series, a scuba diving activity or snorkelling or breathhold diving activity in a manner which the Member knew, or reasonably should have known would expose them to an obvious risk of suffering an injury or illness.
In the case of "reasonably knowing"... I suspect that agency 'rules'...and what is taught to divers on courses (i.e. the safe diving practices and qualification relevant recommendations) would be the determining factor. DAN is quite clear in supporting those practices and recommendations - and that is evident/illustrated throughout their websites.
Check out this Policy Exclusion from DAN Europe... it's quite specific:
Material fact means facts about you or your activities that are likely to influence us in accepting your insurance. This includes medical conditions that may disqualify you from diving or your diving activities where these are not within the safe practices published by reputable diving bodies. If you have any doubt as to whether a fact is ‘material’ you should tell us in writing by e-mail or for medical material facts by completing a medical self declaration form .
In essence, when you apply for insurance, you declare material fact about your diving circumstances. If you state that you are an AOW diver, that becomes a declaration that you will be be doing AOW dives... not cave or cavern dives. Not declaring that you will do cave dives, and then doing cave dives, can void your insurance. Again... the wording used specifically mentions 'safe practices', advised by 'diving bodies'.
In addition, DAN Europe specifically excludes cave diving from it's 'search and recovery' insurance schedule: http://www.daneurope.org/web/guest/free-student-cover1 So...if the student needs rescuing from the cave - any expenses accrued wouldn't be paid via insurance.
International DAN (IDAN) is comprised of independent DAN organizations based around the world that provide expert emergency medical and referral services to regional diving communities. These local networks have pledged to uphold DAN's mission and to operate under protocol standards set by the IDAN Headquarters....Each regional DAN is cognizant of the insurance regulations of its territory.
So.... even whilst we agree that DAN is possibly the most flexible and diver-friendly insurance provider - there are still huge discrepancies in the policy exclusions/small-print between different regions (or is there? is it just ommission of detail in the certificate/schedule?). The point being - the individual needs to CHECK... and also to factor this into a decision whether to conduct the dive.
For the diver.... exceeding your qualification, especially in respect to cave/cavern dives... presents the risk of invalidating your insurance.
----------------
Also, as an off-topic aside (but relevant for yourself, as you are a technical diver)... DAN does have policy exclusions that differentiate between recreational and technical diving. There may be variation regionally, but this is what the DAN Europe policy states:
DAN Europe:Recreational Diving means all snorkelling, and recreational Diving Activities carried out by the Insured as stated in the Schedule or Certificate attached to this Policy with or without breathing apparatus whether as a student or not including:
• Compressed air diving in any form;
• Enriched air “nitrox” diving with fixed percentages with an open circuit or a “rebreather”;
• The use of oxygen enriched air or of oxygen to maximize decompression safety;
• The use of normoxic “Trimix” mixtures at depths less than 50m to minimize the narcotic effects of compressed air;
DAN Europe recommends gas partial pressures up to a maximum of 1,6ATA Oxygen and 5,6ATA Nitrogen in the breathing mixture.
• Technical Diving as defined subject to the medically recommended gas partial pressures of 1,4ATA Oxygen or up to a maximum of 1,6ATA Oxygen and 3,95ATA Nitrogen in the breathing mixture.
Technical Diving means dives conducted with the use of variable gas mixtures (Nitrogen-HeliumOxygen otherwise called Trimix or Helium – Oxygen otherwise called Heliox) up to depths not exceeding 130 metres. On written submission of a full dive profile and proposed safety and support measures insurers may consider providing specific per dive insurance for any dive exceeding 130 metres and/or the maximum gas partial pressure limits allowed above.
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