Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[flots am]

It was really eye opening when you said that I am diving with essentially different equipment every time. Off to research the issue! Thank you!

That's a big one. If money isn't a huge issue, buy your own stuff. At the very least you'll know how it all works.

I never dive with more than one different thing at a time unless it's in extremely benign conditions (like I can stand up and walk to shore if I want to)

With rental gear, it's always different.

 

[TSandM]

Just wanted to go back and address the issue of rubber belts being hard to drop. I was dubious when I got mine and looked at the buckle, which is a standard tongue type (not a compression, scuba-type buckle). So I tried it -- it came off instantly and without issue. Free divers use them, and if you think about it, there is NO ONE who might need to get rid of their weights more urgently than a free diver!

 

[gianaameri]

Good! Then perhaps we are saying the same thing.

Can we agree that while an external stressor can cause a paralyzing physiological response, the goal of every diver should be to do whatever we can through training to make that response less and less likely to incapacitate us, no matter what our norepinephrine levels are?

If it ia possible through training to code the amigdala for a desired outcome it should be done.

It is something which for SCUBA has not been studied or developed.

Clearly we are all in agreement that external cognitive training and learing is good, but shouldn't then the C-card and Dive Center standards then be raised so that all the things/practices we read about on this thread are no longer the acceptable norm?

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[Mike.D]

I think raising the standards would create a higher fail rate on scuba courses and may adversely affect scubas (apparently declining??) popularity. = less customers for scuba shops and certification agencies. Just a thought.


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[Redshift]

Just wanted to go back and address the issue of rubber belts being hard to drop. I was dubious when I got mine and looked at the buckle, which is a standard tongue type (not a compression, scuba-type buckle). So I tried it -- it came off instantly and without issue. Free divers use them, and if you think about it, there is NO ONE who might need to get rid of their weights more urgently than a free diver!

Has it never happened to you that you open a belt or a watch and the prong goes into another hole? It has happened to me plenty of times. I don't want it to happen when I need to drop it. And with belts like that it's needed to pull it tighter to open it... not as simple as just opening the buckle.

Free divers should weigh themselves to be positive near the surface, where most problems occur.

 

[Mike]

Like Bowlofpetunias said, I am literally using new equipment every time I dive.

I've been doing the same thing for 15 years, all I take with me on a vacation dive trip is mask & fins (and sometimes not even fins), a dive computer and my safety gear, sometimes my own wet suit, some times I rent that along with everything else.

Once you are a dialed in diver, it's not a big deal to be renting equipment, basically it's all the same, or you'll eventually see most of everything sooner or later, its not like you're suddenly renting a dry suit where all you've used in a wet suit, or suddenly going to be renting doubles instead of a single tank, or a back plate instead of a BC. The biggest difference you will find in BCs is integrated weights, and even if you get a rental BC with intergrated weights, there is nothing stopping you from not using them and just grabbing a weight belt if you wanted to. With experience you learn to what look for with rental gear and you can do a quick safety check of most of it in less than 2 minutes and spot any issues before you ever get on the boat, and then if you're doing multiple day dives you'll probably be diving the same gear for the whole week, so once you have your new rental gear squared away, you know what you're getting day after day.

One small thing you can do to put rentals in your favor is simply to only dive with the best dive shops in a given dive destination, they keep their gear in excellent condition and buy new gear frequently so you're not likely getting crap gear in the first place and sometimes you're ending up with better gear than you might own anyways depending upon how old your gear is.

---------- Post added March 2nd, 2014 at 10:01 AM ----------

I think raising the standards would create a higher fail rate on scuba courses and may adversely affect scubas (apparently declining??) popularity. = less customers for scuba shops and certification agencies. Just a thought.


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It's already done and over with if you're talking about PADI, who has started the process of implementing many new higher standards to the OW course, the list of what they are changing and adding is pretty much a laundry list of everything that gets discussed on SB about what needs to be changed.

 

[Thea Strassburg]

That's a big one. If money isn't a huge issue, buy your own stuff. At the very least you'll know how it all works.

I never dive with more than one different thing at a time unless it's in extremely benign conditions (like I can stand up and walk to shore if I want to)

With rental gear, it's always different.

This event has... not left my mind since it happened. I see the doctor again tomorrow. And then will break down and start all over at my dive shop. More training, my own equipment and more practice. Having never been sick before (except for the flu) I feel fragile, anxious and depressed.
After reading and learning so much here, I am horrified at my overly confident attitude.

Question: I am a strong snorkeler, but not a strong swimmer. I had gotten into the habit of leaving my dry snorkel on the boat. One of my PADI instucters said snorkels are just a pain, another said they are important. Any thoughts?

 

[flots am]

This event has... not left my mind since it happened. I see the doctor again tomorrow. And then will break down and start all over at my dive shop. More training, my own equipment and more practice. Having never been sick before (except for the flu) I feel fragile, anxious and depressed.
After reading and learning so much here, I am horrified at my overly confident attitude.

Question: I am a strong snorkeler, but not a strong swimmer. I had gotten into the habit of leaving my dry snorkel on the boat. One of my PADI instucters said snorkels are just a pain, another said they are important. Any thoughts?

Three thoughts:

1. You don't need to be a strong swimmer initially, but you do need to be "hard to drown" You will find, however that as your horizontal trim improves, you'll be a much stronger swimmer because you're only trying to move "you" and not the 2 cubic yards of water in front of you. Think of towing a barge vs towing a canoe.
2. When you sign up for a class, find a shop where the class lasts "as long as it takes" for you to be happy with yourself and your skills. You might also ask if you could "audit" the next cycle of their Open Water class. Nothing is more important than getting the basic skills taught in OW really nailed down so they're easy and completely non-stressful. The relatively small set of skills that you have down cold will be more useful than you can imagine (or maybe not )
3. Snorkels are a sort of "religious" debate kind of item. Some people actually don't need them and they present a hazard (cave and wreck divers for example), however if you have a good snorkel (good, not "fancy") that's properly attached and adjusted, you'll never even know it's there.
   
   I always wear mine. First because it was required by my agency for class, but later because I like being able to hang out on the surface and snorkel.
   
   Whatever you get, make sure it doesn't have any moving parts, since they will eventually get broken/bent/crapped up and won't work. Also avoid any of the "totally dry" snorkels with a big ball or gadget on top because it will pull at your mask strap every moment you wear it.

 

[doctormike]

If it ia possible through training to code the amigdala for a desired outcome it should be done.

It is something which for SCUBA has not been studied or developed.

Hmmm...so you don't agree with my thesis that training can make the difference between a paralyzing, reptilian response and a calm, systematic assessment of the situation leading to appropriate action? Or does the fact that you are using the term "amygdala" again imply that I am missing something?

Clearly we are all in agreement that external cognitive training and learing is good, but shouldn't then the C-card and Dive Center standards then be raised so that all the things/practices we read about on this thread are no longer the acceptable norm?

Which things are an acceptable norm? I don't understand this.

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This, I understand!

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Doctormike, as well as other well meaning divers on here, why do we even try and reply to gianaameri's posting. You will get nothing for your efforts other than getting pissed off and getting the thread locked. Just like the Finnish cave diving deaths thread. The sad part is that new divers could really gain some valuable knowledge here, but with all the silt that gianaameri creates, most get tired of reading the back and forth internet battle and walk away learning nothing.