Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[OMANDIVER]

Nope, not grumpy at all. Just calling BS when the bovine manure is spread.

Both the "you don't REALLY have a buddy" meme and the "photogs can't buddy up" meme are quite popular here. Doesn't mean that they're universally true, though.

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you have said that you're own premise isn't universally true. This has nothing whatever to do with any of the posts on this thread.

 

[Storker]

you have said that you're own premise isn't universally true.

Yup, and I'd wish that other people also were aware of that and refrained form blanket statements like:

Dive with a camera and you dive alone.

But if wishes were horses, then even beggars would ride. And posters here on SB would realize that their experiences and opinions aren't universally true. But I guess that at least the latter is too much to hope for...

I'd get out of the glass house before throwing any more rocks if I were you.

This has nothing whatever to do with any of the posts on this thread.

Uh-huh? Care to elaborate, or are you just continuing on your "condescending" act?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Paying for the privilege of nannying a photographer is not something I call the buddy system. Good idea to pay a guide, selfish and unreasonable idea to expect another diver who turns up, paying the same, to do it. I'm not talking about taking a couple of snaps, I mean the guy who spends an hour glued the eyepiece of a DSLR trying to get the lighting right on one nudibranch. If the cap fits wear it!

... but that guy's neither a diver nor a photographer ... he's a selfish person on scuba gear with a camera. There's a difference ... a rather large one, actually.

See, what you are doing is taking one specific type of example and attempting to say that everyone who dives with a camera is like that ... and that's why Storker called it bullsh!t ... because it is exactly that.

You seem to be fond of making broad statements that do little except demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. You did the same thing in the sidemount thread. What you're really saying is that you don't dive like that ... either because you had a bad experience somewhere along the line (your own fault for choosing to dive with that person), or simply because you think only your choices are the correct ones. And using one bad data point to draw conclusions that have little to no basis in the broader reality add little to the conversation.

Makes for nice "hooks" for responses, but your comments are hardly relevant in the real world ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OMANDIVER]

... but that guy's neither a diver nor a photographer ... he's a selfish person on scuba gear with a camera. There's a difference ... a rather large one, actually.

See, what you are doing is taking one specific type of example and attempting to say that everyone who dives with a camera is like that ... and that's why Storker called it bullsh!t ... because it is exactly that.

You seem to be fond of making broad statements that do little except demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. You did the same thing in the sidemount thread. What you're really saying is that you don't dive like that ... either because you had a bad experience somewhere along the line (your own fault for choosing to dive with that person), or simply because you think only your choices are the correct ones. And using one bad data point to draw conclusions that have little to no basis in the broader reality add little to the conversation.

Makes for nice "hooks" for responses, but your comments are hardly relevant in the real world ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's a forum. For debate. Not childish personal insults. You don't seem to have added any value here to what is a valid topic. Play the ball not the man if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's a forum. For debate. Not childish personal insults. You don't seem to have added any value here to what is a valid topic. Play the ball not the man if you want to be taken seriously.

... the topic is valid ... many of the contributions have not been. If you don't like being called out for those contributions, consider making better ones ...

Take your statement "dive with a camera and you dive alone", for example. It's utter horse biscuits ... and that's insulting the horse. Professional photographers the world over have been using the buddy system successfully for decades. So the statement flies in the face of reality.

What you're really telling us is that you don't dive with a camera, and would prefer not to dive with someone else who is carrying a camera. Therefore, in your opinion, it's a bad thing to do. Well and good ... I think it's safe to say you lack either the skills or will to do so, and therefore you shouldn't.

It applies to no one else ... each of us makes our own choices in that matter, and the integrity of the buddy system in each case is determined by the skills of the diver and their willingness to apply them in a way that keeps the buddy system intact. There are methods of doing so ... and they're well within the capability of most recreational divers, if they should choose to learn and apply them.

If you don't want to dive with a buddy ... if you don't want to dive with someone because they're carrying a camera ... it's your right to make that choice. But it in no way implies a fault with the system. All that means is that for some reason you choose not to dive that way.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bruce B]

Ok I have read all of this thread with interest My two cents are; I got out of my NAUI OW course on Friday and went on my Uncles charter boat on Sat. and have been diving Solo Since the first Dive and with few exceptions never dive with a buddy my best friend is also my first instructor we have been on many live aboard boats and on the few times the DM insisted we dive with a buddy we left the boat together and came back at the same time but never saw a sign of each other underwater till we got back to the ladder I trust him more then any other diver I know, but I will ALLWAYS chose self rescue over a buddy I can be a good buddy if there is a new diver or someone that is a little insecure but the majority of the people I dive with are Instructors or a DM and they do not need or want a buddy the same Ocean works for me even if it is not on the same day Most Divers have the Skills to be a good Buddy If the need is conveyed to them but most experienced Sport Divers have learned that you should never count on someone to save there fanny's

 

[kr2y5]

So, back on topic, I wonder what success would look like, and how one could measure it? Would the success be, for a random diver to be able to ensure they can arrange to have a good buddy for any of their planned dives, 95% of the time? Would that be too much to hope for, too little to claim success, or not even the right way to think about it?

 

[TSandM]

Peter and I have been corresponding with a diver from Europe who wants to come to Mexico in December, which is when we are going. We have never met this person. We will be teaming up with her for cave diving (CAVE diving, a form of technical diving, not very forgiving) on our trip. Why? Because we know her training, and we trust that training.

I keep saying that it is possible to have fabulous instabuddies, people you are delighted to dive with. Years and years ago, I went to Maui and dove with a fellow who used to go by the name of kidspot here on SB. I was pretty green. He had more experience than I did diving, but not in our system. We went diving together and felt as though we had known one another for years.

The problem with the buddy system is that no one knows what to expect. Take the variables out and it's fabulous.

 

[SeahorseDeb]

I'm guilty of this! It's good to read the reminders here! When I'm in my low viz diving plans i.e. 5-25 feet (cuz the viz is never better than 25 feet for me), I'm virtually elbow to elbow with my buddy. I find myself saying "sorry" when I bump into my buddy's arm. Then again I like that glance my buddy gives me because it's "all-knowing." When I'm diving better viz I get complacent and if I can see my buddy at 80-100 feet away I feel great. Now I feel stupid. Lesson learned. Thanks to my other buddies here...it's a good reminder and I'm overdue. Better learned here than DOA.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

The problem with the buddy system is that no one knows what to expect. Take the variables out and it's fabulous.

No, take out the variables through extremely regimented training in a dogmatic system of standardized skills, equipment, and configuration and get divers onboard with the idea that their dive has to involve significant focus on maintaining team...and the buddy system merely becomes capable of delivering the redundancy it's supposed to deliver in the first place. Wheee! Whether that's "fabulous" is largely going to turn on what the diver is willing to sacrifice before and during each dive, and their interests.

I and plenty of others prefer carrying our own redundancies, which allows the freedom of not having to worry about anyone but ourselves while in the water and being able to focus on whatever's brought us there in the first place. Not to mention allowing for significantly greater flexibility in optimizing techniques and gear configuration, because we're not trying to match the lowest common denominator to maintain coherence to random instabuddies.

Buddy/team diving can work well. It is never sacrifice-free, nor are the sacrifices simply a matter of spending the time necessary to become an excellent diver.