Should Cert Cards be for life? My cert cards seem to be worthless!

[tomfcrist]

Perhaps if the shop owner reaped more rewards... they'd have enough money to pay instructors and DM's?

Perhaps if the shop would start charging what the instruction is worth, they wouldn't have to pay in peanuts.

We could go on and on here.

What do you think the LA county courses cost in the 60's? Adjust for inflation, then come talk to me.

 

[Bob DBF]

What tax? The Bret Gilliam article suggests making recertification free. Both articles are well worth actually reading.

Dive Training Today, A Perspective by Bret Gilliam, Diver Magazine

Should Diver Certification Be Forever? by Bret Gilliam, Diver Magazine

After reading, I found that the articles had a bit different slant than the quote. It is more of a marketing ploy to retain divers than a money grab. It would take the whole dive industry to work together, and what are the chances of that?



Bob
--------------------------------------
A nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

 

[raftingtigger]

Here are some excerpts from Brett's article:

"Instructors, assistant instructors and divemasters are required to renew annually...and show legitimate evidence of diving activity and student training. But the regular "diver" population is not obligated to any such requirement..."

Sorry for not reading the whole thread before posting, so if this is a repeat....

As a divemaster the only thing required for me to maintain my active status is to pay my dues. I do not have to do ANY diving to renew. OTHO, no matter how much I dive, if I do not pay the dues, I lose active status as a divemaster. At least that is how it works in the PADI world.

 

[Akimbo]

So Gilliam is going to pay instructors for their time? I assure you somebody is going to pay for it. One cannot just waive a magic wand and declare something free.....unless Obama is doing it.

Read the article. His proposal isn't a full-blown repeat of the open water class. It is more of a seminar the shop puts on and is a marketing expense. The seminar explains things that have changed in Scuba diving and helps people who need it appreciate why they should buy the kind of class you are thinking of. Not everyone will need it.

It is also an opportunity to explain why a refresher course is important without making it personal, which can easily happen with one-on-one sales pitches. The idea is to make people realize that they need training rather than telling them they aren’t competent to their face in front of the whole shop.

The class/seminar also shows off stuff to do while diving including more advanced diving that needs special training, local diving (that might need a drysuit), dive resorts, and liveaboards. It also updates people on why they should consider getting AOW, Nitrox, rescue, and/or drysuit merit badges. It can all be done in a couple of hours and only costs the time of one sales person and some coffee. It’s a lot cheaper than an ad or exhibitor table at a dive or boat show.

From the shop’s perspective it gets inactive divers interested again, establishes relationships, and helps people realize where they need to upgrade skills and gear. It is an opportunity that shops wish they had to sell training and replace gear. Any dive shop that knows an active diver isn’t going to waste their resources by making them attend the class. We all know they will just issue the card as a service and “favor” to a customer.

This is the only approach that makes any sense to me. I am against any mandatory repeat of Scuba 101, written tests, or recert dives with some low-grade instructor (who are the ones that will get stuck with the job) as anyone. THAT will never happen and I would be extremely PO’d at any business that even thinks of suggesting it. It’s bad enough that most liveaboards make the first dive a shallow and boring checkout disguised as real dive to spot the very kind of people this seminar is targeted at.

 

[drbill]

Personally I think c-cards should be renewed every few years unless the diver can show proof of a reasonable number of logged dives during the interval period. I have seen people enter the water without a guide and they have not been diving for years and in some cases decades. Many of us have felt the need to keep an eye on them to ensure they make a safe ascent after their descent.

I once watched a guy swimming back to the stairs after entering the water. Something was strange but it took me a few seconds to realize what it was. He had entered without a tank on his back! His regulator was dangling behind him attached only by the inflator hose. None of us could believe it. Then after he affixed the tank, he re-entered the water and couldn't descend. It was then I realized he hadn't put on his weight belt either!

 

[Akimbo]

Dr Bill

You might be expecting more out of a dive class than is possible. They haven't found a solution for stupid yet.

 

[DKL]

My thoughts on this subject are: If you are an adult, you are responsible for yourself. If you get a c-card dive once or twice, take a 5 year break and then decide to dive (whatever risky dive here) without practicing skills and safety protocols etc....and just go out and dive....THAT IS ON YOU. Don't try to play the victim and blame someone or some agency due to your stupidity.

Unfortunately, we have become a victim society where everyone is a victim of something and personal responsibility no longer exists. The lawyers love it because they all cash in....and by extent the insurance companies also love it, so they can keep increasing premiums. The government loves it because they can keep writing all kinds of ridiculous laws and creating fees to keep feeding the monster.

People need to be held responsible for their actions....period. If you hurt yourself or kill yourself being stupid.....to bad.

 

[scubafanatic]

The biggest issue of drop out in anything is... attracting "the wrong people" in the first place.

One of the problems with scuba diving is that, for the most part, to really know if you're going to like it you need to get certified. Further, there's never been a cogent effort to specifically attract people who are attitudinal likely to be divers. (Everything's demographic.) Accordingly, with essentially a "random recruit" to bring people into the sport, the likelihood that any random person falls in love with diving and stays with it is also a random event. It's hard to influence random events.

Layer in the bucket-list allure, plus the cost, hassle, and logistics - and the overarching fact that diving is not really "for everyone" in the first place - and I think it's surprising that 30% actually STAY with diving.

That 30% don't necessarily stay with diving, they may just drop out past the 12-18 month mark.

---------- Post added January 25th, 2015 at 02:47 PM ----------

Personally I think c-cards should be renewed every few years unless the diver can show proof of a reasonable number of logged dives during the interval period. I have seen people enter the water without a guide and they have not been diving for years and in some cases decades. Many of us have felt the need to keep an eye on them to ensure they make a safe ascent after their descent.

I once watched a guy swimming back to the stairs after entering the water. Something was strange but it took me a few seconds to realize what it was. He had entered without a tank on his back! His regulator was dangling behind him attached only by the inflator hose. None of us could believe it. Then after he affixed the tank, he re-entered the water and couldn't descend. It was then I realized he hadn't put on his weight belt either!

That diver actually was in the middle of getting certified, his instructor, Mr Darwin, just hasn't given him his final pass/fail quite yet.

 

[DaleC]

In another thread we talked about setting up different courses for people who wanted different things out of diving. A shorter "resort" or "vacation" cert (DM'd style dives) and a longer, more intensive "independent" type cert. Why not attach a renewal component to the vacation diver cert as suggested above and leave the independent diver alone. We could assume those divers (independent) are more invested in their own sport/training etc... and have accepted responsibility for remaining viable while the vacation diver already expects professional guidance so they will accept the renewal idea as part of that. If they don't want the renewal hassle they can take the more comprehensive course.

Win win. Casual divers get renewals, upgrade courses are encouraged, people get to choose the level of outside influence they receive.

---------- Post added January 25th, 2015 at 12:54 PM ----------

I wonder if the skydiving industry obsesses over retention issues? It seems they have accepted that for a few it is a regular sport while for many it is a "one off" bucket list item. They even developed a whole program to target that crowd... Tandem jumping.

 

[rivers]

GUE certifications expire after 3 years and you have to re-apply. To maintain your certification you have to do something like 25 dives at your highest level of certification in 3 years. At the fundies/recreational/cave 1/tech1 level, it's pretty easy to maintain (i can easily do 25 fundies level dives in 6 weeks or so), but, I imagine at the tech 2/cave 2 and higher levels it can be difficult.