Tipping the DM

[nolatom]

That swing would move them from the "generous" end of the spectrum to the "cheap" end. As someone who has crewed on a dive boat for years, I can tell you that the going rate appears to be $20/person for two-tank trips.

$20/tank for first rate service on a 2-dive charter is on the "that dude rocks, he can dive with us anytime" end of the spectrum. I saved a woman's life once (no resps and no pulse when I pulled her out) and she didn't tip me that much. Not sure what else I could have done for her to earn more.



My rule of thumb for reasonable service on tropical day trips is as follows, with the assumption that much of the crew's work is in the "loading, going, returning, unloading" associated with how many times the boat leaves/returns to the dock so there's not really a linear relationship between tanks and work.

1-Dive = $15 tip
2-Dive = $20 tip
3-Dive = $25 tip

To earn that from me crew members really only need to do two simple things:

1.) Be a nice person; 2.) Don't do anything specifically that causes me to have a bad time. (And there's not much you CAN do to cause me to have a bad time.) I'll tote my own gear to the boat, I'll set it up, I'll break it down, I'll carry my own stuff off the boat. Out of force of habit I'll probably help the other passengers load/unload and help you drag all the empty tanks off the boat too. Typically I'll let the crew know that I'm very self-reliant, like to do my own thing, including gearing up, and am happy to allow them to focus their attention on any passengers that either really need or really want their attention. Most crew folks understand that this allows them to make more passengers happy with less total work. Everyone wins!

From the diver's point of view (Gulf and Fla) I agree you've got it about right. I started at $5 per tank 15 years ago, now $10, for a day dive. DMs and deckhands who are intuitive and know when I do (and don't) need a steadying hand on a rolling boat, or some help positioning your tank as you sit down (tired) after boarding, are the ones I see the most, and like best.

And if you save my cookies by McGyvering my broken gear/straps or finding that extra weight, or matching me up with the perfect insta-buddy, then more.

Oh, and Also if crew and shop work together so they take my tanks back to the shop and I don't have to divert in the wrong direction to go there after the dive (or even before, so I can go straight to the boat). Not always practical for them, but when they do, I'm an even happier camper. A typical day dive for me (Pensacola, Orange Beach) entails lots of driving on 1-10 starting at 0-Dark-30, so saving time enroute, rocks.

 

[AdivingBel]

Sorry, I'm a $5 per tank guy for myself and my wife. If I'm dropping (depending on the OP & where we're going) $150 to $200 for a vacation day boat, I'm probably not going to automatically leave another $40 in the kitty for 4 tanks (2 each). I don't buy into the percentage game. If someone goes over and above, I'm very quick to be generous with extra. IMHO, there is a "sun tax" for this type of work the same as any other. Everyday folks tend to make a little less if they are living someplace nice vs somplace not so nice. In my experience most employers play that game. You're working on a dive boat someplace sunny. If you have to tend bar a couple nights a week to make ends meet, well we've all been there. Liveaboards and cold water diving are different animals and I adjust accordingly. My vacation dollars are just as precious to me as everybody else. Seems like from start to finish there is someone standing with their hand out. I'm O.K. with that and I don't begrudge it a bit. I'm nice and jovial and try to make serving me as easy as I can. It's the way the system works, but everybody has to get in line and the person cleaning the bathroom has a right to their share too. YMMV.

 

[RJP]

.

Sorry, I'm a $5 per tank guy for myself and my wife... If someone goes over and above, I'm very quick to be generous with extra.

I'm not saying this to beat you you, but just want to make sure that you realize a few things:

• In most parts of the world, dive boat crew members earn the vast majority of their income via tips from customers. (Reasonable people can debate whether this is an ideal approach... but there is NO DEBATE that this is the reality of the situation.)
• In most parts of the world "$5 a tank per person" was the going rate for tipping on dive boats some 20 years ago.
• In the past 20 years the cost of everything - especially the cost of living - has increased significantly.
• The current "market rate" for tipping on dive boats for good service is $10 a tank, per person in most of the world.
• In today's market a tip of $5 a tank, per person is 50% below the current going rate in most of the world
• Tipping $5 a tank, per person, rather than the $10tank/person current market rate has the direct consequence of lowering the earnings of the dive boat crew you tip to below current market standards.

Let's not turn this into a "Is tipping right or wrong?" discussion, but keep it within the realities of today's world.

Given these facts, you need to comfortable with the fact that what you are really saying at the beginning of your post is "Sorry, but I elect to consciously ignore the socioeconomic realities of the world as it is today. I choose to tip well below the well-recognized going market rate. No matter that my approach to tipping has the direct consequence of reducing the earnings of those dive boat crew members who provide me with good service, lowering it to a wage that is well below current market standards. However if a dive crew member goes 'over and above' average I will increase my tip to the average rate. Further, I will congratulate myself for doing so by characterizing the reward of 'above average service' with 'merely average compensation' as "generous" behavior."

I'm not saying that you need to change the way you tip. You just need to change the way you think about the way you tip.

 

[AdivingBel]

I get you're an ad guy and I'm a business owner. I get that costs have gone up. The salaries I pay my employees have gone up comensurately. I figured you would have your say and that's fine. I'm not ignoring anything. I put this out there because since alot of the big posters on this board are intimately tied to the industry, their side of the story gets alot more press. You don't get to set the tipping scale and judge what others do as above average or not, hense "gratuity." You get to have an opinion just like everybody else. You don't know how much or how often I tip for "above average" service. Just balancing the boat and letting others know it isn't all one way. My money, my rules. Your money, your rules.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Tipping is different for day boats and for liveaboards. I assume you are on a day boat. $5 to 10 per tank is appropriate depending upon service level. Who set up whta, did you get a snack or lunch as part of the deal, etc. If the DM recovered your dropped weight pouch or weight belt, or camera lens, tip a little more. If they rushed you from place to place, and did little else, I personally think you tip modestly. Also, tip every day, as crews change. On a liveaboard, different rules, as the tip is for everyone from the cooks and servers to the maid and dive crew.
DivemasterDennis

 

[ibj40]

Tipping is "supposed" to be for special service. But in reality, workers in industries were tipping is expected get paid a pittance, in the expectation that they'll make money on tips. In theory, the good workers will make good money and the lousy workers will not. But there are so many other factors. E.g., a waiter in a restaurant where meals cost $100 makes a LOT more on tips than waiters in restaurants that charge $5 for a meal. Some people tip generously, while others say, "I'm paying X for the trip, why should I have to tip?"

In a fair world, everyone would get a fair living wage, and tipping really would be for service above and beyond. But since we don't live in that world, I try to find out what's considered a "proper, decent" tip and then I add 50% to it for regular service, or 100% for special service.





I'm a little unsure whether ibj40 is tipping $15 per two-tank trip, as the second sentence seems to say, or $15 per tank, as the third sentence says.

I think I'll adopt as my standard $15 per tank for normal service and $20 for first-rate service.

I've never received less than good service, and usually I get first-rate service. Maybe it's the sort of places I go. Once, and only once, I had a DM who did the basic expected work and no more. All the others have been people who seemed to love what they were doing, and love helping people, and were always happy to do whatever it took, like lifting my tank out of the water on account of my bad back.

My mistake, should have been $15 per person per two tanks (or $30 total for both of us after a two-tank dive trip).

 

[daniel1948]

Sorry, I'm a $5 per tank guy for myself and my wife. If I'm dropping (depending on the OP & where we're going) $150 to $200 for a vacation day boat, I'm probably not going to automatically leave another $40 in the kitty for 4 tanks (2 each).

This is why the tipping paradigm is uncivilized. In a civilized economy, people would be paid a living wage for their labor, and fired if their work is sub-standard. In a civilized economy, that $150 to $200 day boat would cost (assuming that price is for two people) $190 to $240; the crew would be paid a fair living wage, and tipping would happen only when someone does something actually above and beyond their job description.

Under the tipping paradigm, the wages of the workers are placed at the discretion of the customers, some of whom are already upset because they thing they're paying too much as it is for their dive trip or their meal.

The way I figure it is, if I cannot afford a decent tip then I cannot afford the trip. (In theory, I would not tip if I'm treated badly. But so far, that's never happened.)

 

[AdivingBel]

Tipping is different for day boats and for liveaboards. I assume you are on a day boat. $5 to 10 per tank is appropriate depending upon service level. Who set up whta, did you get a snack or lunch as part of the deal, etc. If the DM recovered your dropped weight pouch or weight belt, or camera lens, tip a little more. If they rushed you from place to place, and did little else, I personally think you tip modestly. Also, tip every day, as crews change. On a liveaboard, different rules, as the tip is for everyone from the cooks and servers to the maid and dive crew.
DivemasterDennis

I think I said not only liveaboard but also cold water diving is a different beast in an earlier post. I'm O.K. with it being modest and I do tip for special service. I also tip every time I go out. The industry can call it what they want, but as long as it's a gratuity, it's a little something extra for a job well done. It's not meant to be the sole source of income. As I said earlier, the cleaning staff and the wait staff get theirs too. The ad guys can "guilt" all they want, but when they put their hand in my pocket they might find more than just a couple rolls of quarters.

 

[RJP]

I get you're an ad guy and I'm a business owner. I get that costs have gone up. The salaries I pay my employees have gone up comensurately. I figured you would have your say and that's fine. I'm not ignoring anything. I put this out there because since alot of the big posters on this board are intimately tied to the industry, their side of the story gets alot more press. You don't get to set the tipping scale and judge what others do as above average or not, hense "gratuity." You get to have an opinion just like everybody else. You don't know how much or how often I tip for "above average" service. Just balancing the boat and letting others know it isn't all one way. My money, my rules. Your money, your rules.

I struggle with how to pursue this conversation on SB because the more I say "I'm simply having an intellectual conversation about socioeconomic realities" the more emotional people get. I understand that people become very emotional in discussing money; it's the main reason that people often make irrational financial decisions.

Again, tip what you like. Gratuities are always at the discretion of the customer. As it should be. Your rationale for what/how you tip is yours and yours alone. I'm merely suggesting that people don't rationalize what they tip, in their own mind, by pretending that the very real economic consequences of their decision don't exist. That's the very definition of "irrational."

 

[AdivingBel]

The way I figure it is, if I cannot afford a decent tip then I cannot afford the trip. (In theory, I would not tip if I'm treated badly. But so far, that's never happened.)

Everybody's version of decent is different as are opinions. All good.

---------- Post added March 16th, 2015 at 01:24 PM ----------

I struggle with how to pursue this conversation on SB because the more I say "I'm simply having an intellectual conversation about socioeconomic realities" the more emotional people get. I understand that people become very emotional in discussing money; it's the main reason that people often make irrational financial decisions.

Again, tip what you like. Gratuities are always at the discretion of the customer. As it should be. Your rationale for what/how you tip is yours and yours alone. I'm merely suggesting that people don't rationalize what they tip, in their own mind, by pretending that the very real economic consequences of their decision don't exist. That's the very definition of "irrational."

Who is getting emotional? You're having a discussion about socioeconomic realities and I'm discussing tipping on a vaction dive boat. Not the same thing really. I don't see where irrational comes into play. The industry etc. made this bed and I fulfill my role in it happily. I'm just saying the discretionary part doesn't also get to be set by the industry (I would say shills, but that's not PC ) insiders. Not my circus, not my monkeys.