Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[guyharrisonphoto]

I tried, oh how I tried. Amazing how a troll can completely destroy a thread by getting everyone mad. OOPS, posted before I saw DrMike's post. I don't disagree with that, there were lots of good discussions about gas management and topics related to AI, as well as good thoughts on how to get the most out of AI, but I have to say the last three pages or so show the thread has run its course . . .

 

[phoenix31tt]

Tell me, from this thread, can you tell if AI computers are a good investment of your limited scuba dollars?

What are the pros? What are the cons? What are the gotchas?

This thread has good information in it. Sadly, the good information is wrapped with all kinds of other non-sense that may or may not be easy for a new diver to sift through.

Just goes to show... This thread has nothing to do with any of the points you mentioned... This thread was soley about why tech types don't like AI...
This thread told me why... If you want to seek information on wether AI is a good investment or what are the pros and cons go start a thread about that...

I bet you that you will get some of the information you are looking for...


That being said... I'm not sure what part of the thread you read it did talk about pros and cons... One person who was strongly against it us even considering it now...

Others shared their view on wether it was a good investment or not... The general consensus is... If you can afford it... Why not...

The info is there...


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[RJP]

LOL! Indeed! There are some good ones in there. I think they might have missed a couple, though...

Reductio ad Hitlerum is the most glaring omission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

 

[Adobo]

Just goes to show... This thread has nothing to do with any of the points you mentioned... This thread was soley about why tech types don't like AI...
This thread told me why... If you want to seek information on wether AI is a good investment or what are the pros and cons go start a thread about that...

I bet you that you will get some of the information you are looking for...


That being said... I'm not sure what part of the thread you read it did talk about pros and cons... One person who was strongly against it us even considering it now...

Others shared their view on wether it was a good investment or not... The general consensus is... If you can afford it... Why not...

The info is there...


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Its like looking at a haystack and saying, "the needle is there."

And in fact, here is another misrepresentation of facts. On one hand, you talk about tech types, then you talk about general consensus that, why not use it? How do you come to that conclusion?

Tech diving involves multiple tanks. Unless you put transmitters on every bottle, the only information your AI computer will gather for you is from the tank(s) you have your one transmitter attached to - likely your backgas. It won't tell you how much gas you have in your various tanks, it won't tell you your SAC rate when you are on a stage bottle or on deco. And it certainly won't tell you *air* time remaining on those tanks or dive time remaining. All benefits that AI proponents tout.

For tech divers, AI computers would be of limited value anyway. Why bother getting it if the so called benefits only extend to recreational dives? To pretend that there is some consensus about AI computers is just plain misleading.

You are welcome to pick the facts of your choice. Lots of people do that on scubaboard.

 

[drrich2]

That's why I think scubaboard is, at times, the worst place for getting information on diving. Some of the people with the loudest opinions are actually the most ignorant. And the people who know the most express themselves in subtle ways because they know that a lot of these things have nuance and gray areas. Unfortunately, those seeking information sometimes have a hard time figuring out who knows and who doesn't.

One of the quality control measures of a public discussion forum is the membership. While opinions vary, flagrantly bad advice is apt to be confronted.

As for issues where 'truth' is subjective (e.g.: BP/W vs. Jacket BCD, GUE training for all, wireless AI, split fins, solo vs. buddy diving, etc...), it's true people don't always know what to believe. But is that any different from hearing the views at your LDS, equally independent but unchallenged as they don't occur in a public forum without debate?

One 'global theme' from ScubaBoard discussions is that even experts don't always agree on everything.

Richard.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Its like looking at a haystack and saying, "the needle is there."

And in fact, here is another misrepresentation of facts. On one hand, you talk about tech types, then you talk about general consensus that, why not use it? How do you come to that conclusion?

Tech diving involves multiple tanks. Unless you put transmitters on every bottle, the only information your AI computer will gather for you is from the tank(s) you have your one transmitter attached to - likely your backgas. It won't tell you how much gas you have in your various tanks, it won't tell you your SAC rate when you are on a stage bottle or on deco. And it certainly won't tell you *air* time remaining on those tanks or dive time remaining. All benefits that AI proponents tout.

For tech divers, AI computers would be of limited value anyway. Why bother getting it if the so called benefits only extend to recreational dives? To pretend that there is some consensus about AI computers is just plain misleading.

You are welcome to pick the facts of your choice. Lots of people do that on scubaboard.

Tech types (advances) not tech divers only... I'm not a tech diver but I would describe myself as a tech type... Additionally tech divers often do recreational diving in recreational gear... Posts like that are usually what clouds up a thread [emoji6]...

You need only to read the first few pages when everything was more or less on topic... No needle.. No haystack...

Very early on it was clear why these types don't like AI... And by General consensus I mean among tech types geez... That's why context is important


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[Adobo]

Tech types (advances) not tech divers only... I'm not a tech diver but I would describe myself as a tech type... Additionally tech divers often do recreational diving in recreational gear... Posts like that are usually what clouds up a thread [emoji6]...

You need only to read the first few pages when everything was more or less on topic... No needle.. No haystack...

Very early on it was clear why these types don't like AI... And by General consensus I mean among tech types geez... That's why context is important


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What the heck are you talking about? Why don't you go read the first post? The OP is not asking your opinion as a *tech type*, whatever the hell that is. The OP is asking why advanced and tech divers have a dislike for AI computers.

---------- Post added August 4th, 2015 at 04:15 PM ----------

One of the quality control measures of a public discussion forum is the membership. While opinions vary, flagrantly bad advice is apt to be confronted.

As for issues where 'truth' is subjective (e.g.: BP/W vs. Jacket BCD, GUE training for all, wireless AI, split fins, solo vs. buddy diving, etc...), it's true people don't always know what to believe. But is that any different from hearing the views at your LDS, equally independent but unchallenged as they don't occur in a public forum without debate?

One 'global theme' from ScubaBoard discussions is that even experts don't always agree on everything.

Richard.

Don't get me wrong. I fully admit that there is a good information to be had in these threads. My only point is that when the threads are also filled with non-sense, it gets very tedious finding the good info and distinguishing it from the bad info.

I'll give you an example. In this thread alone, there are people talking about gas planning. Some have articulated a methodical way (imperfect as it may be) to do that. Others have said that short of bringing 5x the number of tanks you plan to use, CESA is your only real plan in a gas emergency. And others say that OOG emergencies are very incredibly rare occurrences which then begs the question, why bother reserving gas for such things in the first place?

Somewhere in my example, there is good information. I know it. Good luck to the uninitiated figuring out which is which.

 

[CamG]

Ok WELCOME TO THE ADVANCED FORUM.
I honestly have my old AI regs and have used them maybe once in the last 5yrs.
I just do not dive a single tank, Im not trying to be rude or mean just train the way I dive.
Do I do REC dives? Absolutely, and I do a lot of dives honing skills for Tech dives.

I do not bash on anyone for having a transmitter on their tank.
I have seen a transmitter in a Cavern Course that made me take a pause and wonder what the instructor had to say.
I am speaking of the TECH realm where overheads exist.
This is the Advanced Forum.
I am not spewing any venom or flames.

CamG

 

[phoenix31tt]

What the heck are you talking about? Why don't you go read the first post? The OP is not asking your opinion as a *tech type*, whatever the hell that is. The OP is asking why advanced and tech divers have a dislike for AI computers.

---------- Post added August 4th, 2015 at 04:15 PM ----------



Don't get me wrong. I fully admit that there is a good information to be had in these threads. My only point is that when the threads are also filled with non-sense, it gets very tedious finding the good info and distinguishing it from the bad info.

I'll give you an example. In this thread alone, there are people talking about gas planning. Some have articulated a methodical (imperfect as it may be) to do that. Others have said that short of bringing 5x the number of tanks you plan to use, CESA is your only real plan in a gas emergency. And others say that OOG emergencies are very incredibly rare occurrences which then begs the question, why bother reserving gas for such things in the first place?

Somewhere in my example, there is good information. I know it. Good luck to the uninitiated figuring out which is which.

Advanced in brackets... Regardless my points stand... The first few pages discussed the topic... And tech divers dive recreational gear... A number of tech divers have expressed that they used ai on rec dives but you probably know more than they do about their diving...

If finding relevant on the board is a needle in the haystack for you then so be it... I must have a really strong magnet


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[DaleC]

I get a kick out of people who visit a discussion board and complain about the discussion. That's what it's about. Sit around a table anywhere in the world IRL, with an assortment of people from different backgrounds, and you'll get much the same scenario. Some will be quiet and just listen, some will want to debate points, some will want to dominate, some will have something useful to add... and be completely ignored.

What can be uncomfortable at times is when you feel you have a valid point but others disagree with that validity. And so we argue about who's more righter than the other! But then again that's what maturity is about; holding a position if you think it's right but being open enough to concede it may either be wrong or not as relevant to others. I'm pretty impressed by the maturity of many posters on SB even if I disagree with them at times.

I think this thread hasn't been that mystical. It would appear that both AIC's and SPG's can be dived the same by competent people. Much of the abuse would tend to boil down to user error. There are strategies to cope with failures. AIC's offer lots of data if you are into that sort of thing. Lots of data is more a convenience than a necessity, AIC's cost a lot more.

People can sift through it and see where they fall on the spectrum and determine the cost/value ratio for themselves.