Mandatory tracking device for divers?

[doctormike]

Again, don't confuse my posts with a call for mandatory tracking devices, whatever that means. I was just trying to get some of you to understand how someone outside of the diving community might see this.

They are being asked to pay for expensive search and rescue efforts because of someone's hobby. So while you can all thump your chests about how no one is going to make you wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet because of liberty and freedom, you should also understand that living in a community sometimes means that your own personal liberty is balanced against community interests.

Remember this girl? Her family famously refused to contribute to the cost of her rescue, and a lot of people had a problem with that.

It's not so cut and dried. No one here is suggesting that some sort of scuba police should make all divers wear beacons. But it's also reasonable to consider the other side of an argument, so that you don't end up with ill conceived laws written by people who don't understand diving or divers.

---------- Post added September 3rd, 2015 at 06:28 AM ----------

And just who do you think is going to make me wear this device? I don't even wear a seat belt, I hook it on my seat so it looks like I have it on.

Yup, that sounds like a good idea.

 

[AfterDark]

Again, don't confuse my posts with a call for mandatory tracking devices, whatever that means. I was just trying to get some of you to understand how someone outside of the diving community might see this.

They are being asked to pay for expensive search and rescue efforts because of someone's hobby. So while you can all thump your chests about how no one is going to make you wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet because of liberty and freedom, you should also understand that living in a community sometimes means that your own personal liberty is balanced against community interests.

Remember this girl? Her family famously refused to contribute to the cost of her rescue, and a lot of people had a problem with that.

It's not so cut and dried. No one here is suggesting that some sort of scuba police should make all divers wear beacons. But it's also reasonable to consider the other side of an argument, so that you don't end up with ill conceived laws written by people who don't understand diving or divers.

---------- Post added September 3rd, 2015 at 06:28 AM ----------



Yup, that sounds like a good idea.

Yup it is too me, it's called choice it ain't just for killing babies ya know. I grew up in cars without seatbelts, I've managed to survive 61 years with a seatbelt what's bad?

I've been paying taxes since 1968. I've paid for my search if need be 1000 times over already. They want extra now? We pay taxes to fund the USCG, PD's and FD's so we can count on them in an emergency while enjoying our hobbies like: water skiing, boating, sailboarding, swimming, paddle boarding, fishing and yes even diving.

Maybe the cops should charge for every call from a citizens? Or the fire depts. charge for putting out a fire?

So stow the outside justification for laws that would discriminate against divers, forcing them to do something nobody else on the water enjoying their hobbies are required to do. Is this still America or is it now Amerika?

 

[Nasser]

Perhaps one can consider that this would not be a mandatory device, but if one elects to use one there would be certain guidelines and stipulations for its use. An intentional false alarm for example would incur a penalty fee... (yes I know, how can you prove it was intentional?)

Maybe the device might be a selectable option included as part of an insurance policy from an organization like DAN along with assisted transport, recompression, etc.. etc.. The insurance company might pick up the tap of a full on rescue and help to ease the burden on the taxpayer?

Perhaps this is silly and unrealistic and I don't know enough about the tax and insurance systems in various countries, or this technology to speak intelligently on the subject. Just suggesting that there could be a middle-ground where the unit is not mandatory but for those who decide to utilize one, they would have specific guidelines and responsibilities so that the abuse of the unit could be avoided and the burden on taxpayers reduced.

Just thinking aloud...

 

[AfterDark]

Perhaps one can consider that this would not be a mandatory device, but if one elects to use one there would be certain guidelines and stipulations for its use. An intentional false alarm for example would incur a penalty fee... (yes I know, how can you prove it was intentional?)

Maybe the device might be a selectable option included as part of an insurance policy from an organization like DAN along with assisted transport, recompression, etc.. etc.. The insurance company might pick up the tap of a full on rescue and help to ease the burden on the taxpayer?

Perhaps this is silly and unrealistic and I don't know enough about the tax and insurance systems in various countries, or this technology to speak intelligently on the subject. Just suggesting that there could be a middle-ground where the unit is not mandatory but for those who decide to utilize one, they would have specific guidelines and responsibilities so that the abuse of the unit could be avoided and the burden on taxpayers reduced.

Just thinking aloud...

There's is usually some middle ground. For me I don't care what other divers carry. I just don't want anymore laws telling me how to dive from a bunch of know nothing lawmakers. Towing the required dive flag is enough of a restriction, darn thing gets caught on lobster pot lines and large rock formations. Haven't they F'd up enough yet?

If my insurance company wants to reduce my premiums if I carry a locator I'd consider it if the savings is substantial. CHOICE.

 

[doctormike]

So stow the outside justification for laws that would discriminate against divers, forcing them to do something nobody else on the water enjoying their hobbies are required to do. Is this still America or is it now Amerika?

I don't think that you understand my point. I think that you are taking a very reasonable idea (carrying a locator beacon on high risk dives) into some sort of libertarian straw man.

As I said, I'm not suggesting that some sort of law be passed making these devices mandatory, but I AM saying that in some circumstances it might be a good idea. People who back country ski carry avalanche beacons voluntarily. If you consider those to be in the same category as seat belts, and you wouldn't carry one on principle, then that's your choice.

And this was the thought that made me edit my post from "no" I would not carry one to "unlikely." But thinking more about it, the searches I am aware of I believe are primarily rescue efforts not recovery. And though it didn't work for Lynne, the Nautilus style radio is already available for that.

Yes, but the Nautilus is really a different thing from an underwater locator beacon. And think about this: Captain Rich had to make a really hard choice on the Doria last month, and a correct one in my opinion. He prevented a double tragedy by directing resources where they might have done the most good (the surface search). But consider a different scenario, a few years from now when those beacons are more reliable, etc.. A diver blows runtime, and you KNOW that he's not on the surface. THEN, you have crucial data to help with your decision making. And if that diver is on a rebreather and not OC, you might even make a successful rescue, not just a recovery.

 

[kwinter]

That's me 99% of my diving is shore diving and half of those are solo. So who's going to make me wear this again?

Yup it is too me, it's called choice it ain't just for killing babies ya know. I grew up in cars without seatbelts, I've managed to survive 61 years with a seatbelt what's bad?

I've been paying taxes since 1968. I've paid for my search if need be 1000 times over already. They want extra now? We pay taxes to fund the USCG, PD's and FD's so we can count on them in an emergency while enjoying our hobbies like: water skiing, boating, sailboarding, swimming, paddle boarding, fishing and yes even diving.

Maybe the cops should charge for every call from a citizens? Or the fire depts. charge for putting out a fire?

So stow the outside justification for laws that would discriminate against divers, forcing them to do something nobody else on the water enjoying their hobbies are required to do. Is this still America or is it now Amerika?

These are 2 of the absolute dumbest posts I have ever seen. Congratulations. I'm glad that you are proud of your stupid, reckless behavior, all in the name of freedom. We also have laws against self immolation. Why don't you violate that one too? That would show us that you refuse to be governed by laws designed to protect you. And in case you didn't realize it, there are fire districts that are "membership" based, so that only those that pay the fee get covered. It's great that you've been paying taxes for almost 50 years. I'm sure you have received service from those tax payments. But it isn't a bank account where you can demand to get your fair share. Taxes are the price we pay for a free society.

And I wish folks would stop focusing on the "mandatory" aspect. There are no scuba police. Dive by yourself or a shore dive and do what you want. But on a boat, you follow the rules or you don't dive. If the boat requires a pony bottle and you don't want to take one, no one will force you. You just don't get to dive. And if the boats started to require divers to carry a PLB or a transceiver, that's their prerogative. Don't like rules? Go somewhere else. You probably accept rules more from the boat captain than you do from Uncle Sam. Think about that for a while.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[AfterDark]

I don't think that you understand my point. I think that you are taking a very reasonable idea (carrying a locator beacon on high risk dives) into some sort of libertarian straw man.

As I said, I'm not suggesting that some sort of law be passed making these devices mandatory, but I AM saying that in some circumstances it might be a good idea. People who back country ski carry avalanche beacons voluntarily. If you consider those to be in the same category as seat belts, and you wouldn't carry one on principle, then that's your choice.



Yes, but the Nautilus is really a different thing from an underwater locator beacon. And think about this: Captain Rich had to make a really hard choice on the Doria last month, and a correct one in my opinion. He prevented a double tragedy by directing resources where they might have done the most good (the surface search). But consider a different scenario, a few years from now when those beacons are more reliable, etc.. A diver blows runtime, and you KNOW that he's not on the surface. THEN, you have crucial data to help with your decision making. And if that diver is on a rebreather and not OC, you might even make a successful rescue, not just a recovery.

I don't think that you understand my point. I think that you are taking a very reasonable idea (carrying a locator beacon on high risk dives) into some sort of libertarian straw man.

Excuse me, read the title Mandatory that means something, it comes with penalties. Don't change it to just carrying one like it was a choice that ain't the idea of the OP.

.......and you wouldn't carry one on principle, then that's your choice. Principle has nothing to do with anything. I don't use a seat belt because my personal experience is that I don't need one. I also disable the bomb in the steering wheel because it causes me more concern that reassurance.

If I was diving in one the 3rd world locations you bet your bibby I'd carry a locator. Divers get left behind and go missing on a pretty regular basis at those locals.

I don't carry what I don't need and I don't need lawmakers telling me what I need to carry on any given dive. If some operator wants to make it mandatory on their boat and provides one I'll carry it. The operator knows about diving, law makers know how to make laws and impose fines.


---------- Post added September 3rd, 2015 at 08:11 AM ----------

These are 2 of the absolute dumbest posts I have ever seen. Congratulations. I'm glad that you are proud of your stupid, reckless behavior, all in the name of freedom. We also have laws against self immolation. Why don't you violate that one too? That would show us that you refuse to be governed by laws designed to protect you. And in case you didn't realize it, there are fire districts that are "membership" based, so that only those that pay the fee get covered. It's great that you've been paying taxes for almost 50 years. I'm sure you have received service from those tax payments. But it isn't a bank account where you can demand to get your fair share. Taxes are the price we pay for a free society.

And I wish folks would stop focusing on the "mandatory" aspect. There are no scuba police. Dive by yourself or a shore dive and do what you want. But on a boat, you follow the rules or you don't dive. If the boat requires a pony bottle and you don't want to take one, no one will force you. You just don't get to dive. And if the boats started to require divers to carry a PLB or a transceiver, that's their prerogative. Don't like rules? Go somewhere else. You probably accept rules more from the boat captain than you do from Uncle Sam. Think about that for a while.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

Consider yourself on report. I wish folks with Cranium rectal inversion wouldn't post but they do. No scuba police but there is the DEM that hands out fines for not having a dive flag scuba police by any other name is still scuba police. Hey, diver where's your locator, none? Well here's your fine. they wait at the exit points at FTW. In RI one of the nanny states we have scuba police.

 

[seeker242]

Keep in mind though that having a VHF radio isn't required on many boats (at least in Florida). One would hope that putting trackers on divers would come WAY after requiring boaters to carry a radio.

Can't imagine a situation where I'd dive from a boat without a radio.

All boats for hire in USA are required to have a VHF radio if they go more than 300m from shore. Private boats on the other hand, different story! Just as long as they are less than 20m in length. Larger boats require a radio.

 

[ktomlinson]

The original topic is about mandatory locators. It's a knee jerk topic. People get lost every single day, but if someone proposed we install mandatory trackers in people or even a car people would lose their minds. There's a very non-tech solution that already exists, floating dive buoys that are towed by divers. I'd even be opposed to that being mandatory though.

 

[Ana]

And I wish folks would stop focusing on the "mandatory" aspect. There are no scuba police. Dive by yourself or a shore dive and do what you want. But on a boat, you follow the rules or you don't dive. If the boat requires a pony bottle and you don't want to take one, no one will force you. You just don't get to dive. And if the boats started to require divers to carry a PLB or a transceiver, that's their prerogative. Don't like rules? Go somewhere else. You probably accept rules more from the boat captain than you do from Uncle Sam. Think about that for a while.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

Mandatory is too big of a word to ignore.

One thing is having Operator X making it mandatory for his/her charter, at that point the diver can decide if that charter is suitable or go look for another boat. If it is MANDATORY for all charters then the diver no longer has a choice. If the insurance companies run with this ,,,, it becomes very close to having a scuba police.

So please you think about it for a while.... and then tell us not to focus on the MANDATORY part