Why don't more companies make an 18# wing?

[cool_hardware52]

I only know of Oxycheq and Apeks.

They seem more than adequate for single-tank recreational diving. Am I missing something?

If a brand offers limited choices in wings it makes it easier for retailers to stock them, and it relieves them from having to actually understand and explain why a given wing is or is not appropriate for a given application. I'd venture only a very small fraction of dive equipment resellers and their staff can quantitatively explain how much BC capacity is required. It's much easier to point at the wall display and say "you'd look good in that one"

As for 17 lbs wing being "too small" I'll point out that it wasn't all that many years ago that most divers used no BC at all, and some still dive using no BC. If one is properly weighted little to no inflation is necessary to remain at the surface.

Weighting, not BC capacity, is the key to comfort at the surface. The state of scuba education today is another impediment to wide spread use and acceptance of smaller wings. I typically spend 20-40 minutes on the phone with new divers looking for a BP&W, and virtually none of them understand what a BC is actually compensating for, or how to quantitatively estimate how much ballast they might need. Not their fault. Their BOW instructor told them they needed 10% of their body weight.....

Are there applications where a 17 lbs wing is insufficient? Sure, many. Highly buoyant exposure suits have the potential to lose more buoyancy and demand BC's that can replace this lost buoyancy, but 3mm suits that are ~3-5 lbs positive can't lose more than 3-5lbs.......

Tobin

 

[NAM001]

As far as small lift bcd's or wings. dont forget you may have to use it to lift you and your buddy to get to the surface of stay on the surface.

 

[Cali_diver]

Or get out of a crazy down current... speaking from experience.

 

[Nemrod]

Frankly, I am re-evaluating small wings for warm water diving and considering and toying with the idea of a travel BC like the SP Equator. I am tired of having my head underwater while my buddies float high and dry. Sometimes it is dangerous in that for one thing, being barely high enough in the water to get my nose and mouth up by leaning back if needing to remain on the surface for a lengthy time for a pick up it is possible to exhaust the back gas and need the atmosphere God gave us to breath. The other danger is boaters cannot see you, sausage aside. A third issue with this is that it is difficult to see the dive boat and to signal them the OKAY sign if you are struggling to remain on the surface as each passing waves covers you. Without at least some flotation forward of the body as afforded by BCs like the Equator style, even with my 30 pound wing it will face plant me before it gets my head clear of the water as are my BC wearing buddies.

Wings have their shortcomings and surface maneuvering/loitering is one of them, especially small wings. Yes, old time divers, we did fine without a BC but we also generally had a snorkel, we did not have the encumbrances of modern gear and we often had a Mae West (chest type inflation) with oral inflation if we needed to remain on the surface. Or we had a horse collar type BC which most definitely will float the head clear of the water and keep it there. And if shore diving we had a tube, board or float that could support a resting diver.

N

 

[halocline]

As far as small lift bcd's or wings. dont forget you may have to use it to lift you and your buddy to get to the surface of stay on the surface.

This topic has been discussed (more accurately, beaten into a pulp) on this board. The accepted practice of most agencies that I'm aware of is to not use excessive lift in your own BC to rescue another diver. Instead you drop the victim's weights and/or inflate his BC. Using your own BC for lifting negative objects (like an overweighted victim or that nice anchor you found) is a good way to risk an unintended bolt to the surface.

 

[stuartv]

I took a 20# wing on my recent trip to the Bahamas, and while it was very nice under water, I have to say that the flotation on the surface was cutting it close. Not something I'd want to deal with for long in rough seas.

If you are properly weighted, worst case on the surface is the start of the dive, where you'll be negative by the weight of your gas. With an AL80, 6#. With an HP120, 9#. So, even with a 120, if you use 9# of wing capacity to float your gas, an 18# wing still leaves you 9# to keep your head out of the water. And that's with a 120, and at the start of your dive. At the end of your dive, even if you only use half your tank, that means you're floating (being generous) 5# of gas and have 13# of lift available to hold your head up. An AL80, at the end of a decent dive would mean 1# of gas and 17# available at the surface to hold your head up.

I happen to have a 23# wing for warm water, but for warm tropical diving, I would have no qualms with an 18# wing.

For me, the LCD30 is actually the most comfortable to dive since the dump valve is low enough for me to reach easily and since the intent when I bought it was to use with AL80's, I think that or the Torus 26 is a no brainer. If you're shorter and intent to use AL63's regularly, then I'd go with the LCD20 since it is the right length for that tank, but the LCD30 offers no real more drag, wrapping, or air trapping than the others because the lift is created by length, not width.

I had my LCD30 before I got the Hog 23. I haven't used the LCD since. I find that if I am perfectly horizontal and definitely if I am slightly (or more) head down, the donut shape of the Hog is easier to dump gas from. The LCD's horseshoe shape will not let gas in the right side get to the dump valve if you're any head down. Primarily talking about the normal situation of having little or very little gas in the wing. Obviously, if the wing is pretty full, you can dump gas from most any position.

If I had to choose any DSS wing to use, I would always go for a Torus. But, if I were spending my own money, then I would choose neither and look for a donut wing with a zipper to access the inner bladder, to allow for the possibility of a field repair. (which is why I now have a Hog wing in addition to my LCD30...)

 

[cool_hardware52]

I had my LCD30 before I got the Hog 23. I haven't used the LCD since. I find that if I am perfectly horizontal and definitely if I am slightly (or more) head down, the donut shape of the Hog is easier to dump gas from. The LCD's horseshoe shape will not let gas in the right side get to the dump valve if you're any head down. Primarily talking about the normal situation of having little or very little gas in the wing.

How do you get gas to move *down* under the lower end of the cylinder without being 50-60-70 degrees heads down? Remember to get *any* gas to move through the lower arc of a donut wing the portion of the wing *under* the cylinder has to become the highest point of the wing.

Divers vent during ascents. Do you routinely ascend while 50-60-70 degrees heads down?

Tobin

 

[Father]

Wow... great stuff guys. I didn't know about DSS. I see they even have a 12# wing. That's pretty neat. I like the way the mount. I'd love to try one of these to compare.

I hadn't considered warm vs cold water.
I dive an 18# Oxy wing, 5.5# SS BP with an AL80 in about 84° water. I wear a 3mm shorty and a Lava Core long sleeve shirt.
I'm good on the surface. Not necessarily bobbing out a lot, but most of my diving is walk in scooter diving or boat diving. Either way I don't spend much time on the surface before or after the dive. I'd be curious how much of a difference fresh vs. salt water would change my buoyancy on the surface.

I love the Oxycheq. I did notice the Apeks is a little longer than the Oxycheq. I didn't notice before but I'm guessing the Apeks is probably a little more narrow on the sides.

Makes sense regarding new divers. Most people just getting their OW/AOW C-card are using rental/borrowed gear or going with what the average LDS recommends, which is more than likely not a BP/W.

 

[tbone1004]

fresh vs. salt shouldn't change your buoyancy. displacement is displacement. You displace the same amount of volume regardless of the density of the medium that you are immersed in. I.e. the wing will displace the same volume of water in fresh vs. salt so it will actually have more "lift" in salt than it does in fresh because the salt water is more dense

 

[cool_hardware52]

Wow... great stuff guys. I didn't know about DSS. I see they even have a 12# wing. That's pretty neat.

That's for the kind words. Keep in mind the 12 lbs "Super Scooter" wing is intended for "monkey diving" where the single al 80 is slung, *not* back mounted. The Super Scooter wing attaches to a back plate, but does not allow mounting a cylinder to the plate.

Tobin