Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink

[tbone1004]

doing this math right now for the "next step" for me. I'm already at DPV cave, so for us it's a lot shorter, but full rough cost if you're a good OC diver with Nitrox and intro-to-tech type training
This is assuming you are at the OC level with the sufficient pre-reqs to get into MOD1, but no cave training. This is the rough training progression, and gear acquisition

JJ CCR-$9k
MOD1-$1500: basic CCR course
CCR Cave- $2000
Year 1: ~$20k total after misc costs

Lithium DPV-$7k-the ones they were using were closing to $9k
DPV Training-$500
Year 2: $5k-$10k depending which unit you pick and how much you end up diving

MOD2: $1200: Normoxic CCR Trimix
MOD3: $1200: full CCR Trimix
Depending on the instructor, some will combine these two, so call it year 3 at ~$10k. Lots of gear to be acquired here to get the amount of bottles picked up on top of the fill costs for said bottles.

Misc costs ~$2k for the gas fills, sorb, site fees, etc etc. for the classes, not including lodging/transportation/food etc etc
Misc gear: bailout bottles/regulators, lights etc etc -$5k

Total rough cost between $30k-$40k. Can be done cheaper if you shop around. Cheaper DPV's can be had that are more than capable of doing that dive as it is considered a "short" dpv dive. A used UV-18 is more than adequate for that and can be had for ~$2k. You can use an mCCR or a used older unit that can be had for around $5k. Some instructors/dealers for both the DPV's and CCR's have deals where if you purchase through them they will drop the course fee, etc etc. Keep in mind that that is just training and gear purchases, not the misc costs associated with actually going down for diving in between the courses to get experience, etc etc etc. It is also spread out of what I think would be a bare minimum of 2 years if you are doing a LOT of cave diving, 3-5 is probably more realistic. Still quick in most peoples opinions, but it can be done safely if properly funded and motivated in 3-5 years.

 

[BDSC]

I'll put up a few hundred for a GoPro, strap it to your equipment, and live vicariously through you.

 

[KevinNM]

They each had a 10k plus CCR, a 5-10k DPV, a backup 5-10k team DPV, a 3k dry suit, 2k worth of tanks, 1-2 k worth of lights, and enormous investments in training and gas costs.

I'm not convinced they were not qualified to do this. It's more dangerous than they probably accepted, but I'm not really in a position to evaluate people at that level. How many people have made say a dozen trips into that room?

 

[tbone1004]

I'll put up a few hundred for a GoPro, strap it to your equipment, and live vicariously through you.

hah, not saying that we are planning on doing these kinds of dives, I have no desire to do that much deco, but we are looking at upgrading our DPV's and going into CCR, so the costs have been evaluated and figured I'd throw them up there. Course prices taken from Add Helium btw and are fairly consistent with the rest of the industry

 

[BDSC]

I guess diving can be about as expensive as a person wants to make it.

 

[DustyC]

I guess diving can be about as expensive as a person wants to make it.

Yep, and many insist on making it more expensive. Almost like a status symbol. Idon't think that odd social behavior is unique to diving though.

 

[EricTheDood]

I guess diving can be about as expensive as a person wants to make it.

Not nearly as expensive as it could (should?) be, perhaps?

Twinset doubles exist because divers want to carry more air. Sidemount doubles exist because twinsets can make it difficult to pass tight restrictions.

So maybe CCR cave divers could benefit from redundant CCRs, i.e. twin sidemount CCRs and even CCRs in lieu of stage bottles, except for the final 100% O2 bottle? That way if a diver fumbles in a cave, he/she can relax and take the time to figure things out. Meanwhile, deco penalty will increase substantially, but extra CCRs will take care of that. Not a bad way to drop $50K+ per diver in CCRs alone.

 

[victorzamora]

There's certainly not a ceiling when it comes to spending. However, I do believe there's a floor. Even bargain-hunting, a good used CCR+Mod1 is going to be in the $5k range. 1.5 scooters capable of that dive will run $3k. Course costs for: Cave CCR, Cave DPV, Mod2, Mod3 total out to ~$5k. That's $13k.

Plus the same misc stuff tbone mentioned earlier for the courses (sorb, entry fees, gas/hotel fees, etc) can easily add up to a couple thousand.

The tanks they had can be had at ~$450/pair of steels and ~$200/pair of aluminums, plus regs at ~$250/bottle, you're looking at almost $2k.

Then, you need (arguably) a few hundred hours of diving the breather before you get there. Yeah, they count as fun, but it's a non-negligible cost in getting there....much like climbing smaller mountains before approaching Everest. Eagle's Nest gets called the Everest of Cave Diving....and I'm not nearly experienced enough to agree or disagree, but there are parallels to draw wrt any cave that deep.

 

[KevinNM]

There was a posting showing a trip to Eagles Nest on cavediver.net made in August to the the Abyss room. Not 100% who was involved but it was 4 guys among who was one of the recovery divers and another the head of cave/CCR training for GUE. Extremely competent people. They mention they had 1300 cubic feet of 300' bailout gas (with them and in safety bottles heading to the door) with the 4 of them on that dive. So yeah, maybe the divers in this incident should have reasonably had more bailout.

Spectacular photos.
Eagles Nest - Bigger, Badder, Bolder

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm not convinced they were not qualified to do this. It's more dangerous than they probably accepted, but I'm not really in a position to evaluate people at that level.

That is the million dollar question that has stymied my attempts to write my article on diving beyond one's limits. When you are diving at that level, how can you really know if the dive is within your limits? We know you cannot get to those levels without making reasonable steps beyond your present level, but how can you be sure you can tell the difference between a reasonable step and a foolish leap?