"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

[boulderjohn]

I think Rescue, as dealing with accidental deco is a rescue issue, and if you don't have some understanding, you can make matters worse rather than better.

Interesting idea. It is not currently in the Rescue Course that way at all, but I can certainly see the logic of including emergency decompression procedures as a rescue skill, both for self rescue and buddy rescue.

 

[boulderjohn]

One skill I suspected was left out for safety but perhaps I am mistaken was the drill of removing your BC, leaving it on the bottom of the pool, surfacing and then going back to retrieve it. Am I wrong about that? Didn't they also have more stress drills once upon a time, such as unexpected mask removal and the like?

The drill of removing gear, surfacing without it, and returning to the bottom to get it was not part of all scuba instruction in the past, and almost all agencies that did include it removed it for safety reasons long ago. A few years ago an SSI instructor had her students at the University of Alabama doing the drill, even though it as not part of the SSI curriculum, and one of the students died of an air embolism he got during ascent. The drill has no specific practical value, since it is not something that is ever done on a scuba dive.

The harassment stuff was, to my knowledge, never part of the curriculum of any dive agency. It is mentioned in the history of NAUI written by founder Al Tillman as something they were surprised to see some instructors doing during the early days of NAUI. He clearly did not favor it, feeling the primary purpose and benefit was the amusement of the instructors. Over the years individual instructors have continued to do it without the blessing of their agencies. If an accident were to happen as a result and lead to a lawsuit, they would have a hard time responding to charges that it is unsafe, since they could not point to accepted agency practices as a justification.

 

[RayfromTX]

The drill of removing gear, surfacing without it, and returning to the bottom to get it was not part of all scuba instruction in the past, and almost all agencies that did include it removed it for safety reasons long ago. A few years ago an SSI instructor had her students at the University of Alabama doing the drill, even though it as not part of the SSI curriculum, and one of the students died of an air embolism he got during ascent. The drill has no specific practical value, since it is not something that is ever done on a scuba dive.

The harassment stuff was, to my knowledge, never part of the curriculum of any dive agency. It is mentioned in the history of NAUI written by founder Al Tillman as something they were surprised to see some instructors doing during the early days of NAUI. He clearly did not favor it, feeling the primary purpose and benefit was the amusement of the instructors. Over the years individual instructors have continued to do it without the blessing of their agencies. If an accident were to happen as a result and lead to a lawsuit, they would have a hard time responding to charges that it is unsafe, since they could not point to accepted agency practices as a justification.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've heard many "back when I was certified" stories of how well they were equipped to handle emergencies because of those drills but I can't imagine defending that position in a deposition in today's justice system.

 

[uncfnp]

With tables, I could sort of understand why deco was not addressed in any detail since the tables used for recreational courses were not designed for it beyond the "emergency" contingency. But with the switch to computers courses would it not be possible to continue to emphasize staying in NDL but also reviewing, at least in the classroom, how a dive computer would manage unplanned deco so the new diver would recognize it and not panic if it happened. And taking the emergency context out. Or is this already done?

Teaching planned deco, even lite, should remain in the tech course category but make the transition into this easier for the diver interested in advancing his or her diving further but may not want or need the time and money investment of full tech. PADI and possibly others have taken this step with Tech 40 but all too often it seems the impression given with this course is as a stepping stone to full tech and not a valuable course in itself.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Thanks for clearing that up. I've heard many "back when I was certified" stories of how well they were equipped to handle emergencies because of those drills but I can't imagine defending that position in a deposition in today's justice system.

It was not for a skill lesson - it was a water comfort lesson/scenario - if you will it weeded out - ill prepared and non-water divers. Not everyone could pass the course and not everyone was expected to pass.

It was completely different back then. Not better not worse - but when you passed OW - you had the skills to go dive with a buddy. That was the benefit.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Now there are no kneeling pictures, and there are many shots of proper buoyancy and trim swimming.

This hasn't been extended to the PADI DM eLearning which I'm currently working through. There are a number of
inconsistencies and skills kneeling is shown in the videos. I was particularly disappointed that it still refers to Scuba review which has been replaced with the Re Activate Program.

Obviously the standards updates aren't fully linked with their training materials

 

[boulderjohn]

But with the switch to computers courses would it not be possible to continue to emphasize staying in NDL but also reviewing, at least in the classroom, how a dive computer would manage unplanned deco so the new diver would recognize it and not panic if it happened. And taking the emergency context out. Or is this already done?

That has been part of the PADI computer version of the OW course since its creation. It is in the textbook, the knowledge reviews, and the final exam.

 

[boulderjohn]

This hasn't been extended to the PADI DM eLearning which I'm currently working through. There are a number of
inconsistencies and skills kneeling is shown in the videos. I was particularly disappointed that it still refers to Scuba review which has been replaced with the Re Activate Program.

Obviously the standards updates aren't fully linked with their training materials

I have never seen the e-Learning version of the class, which has evidently not been updated.

 

[Storker]

It was completely different back then. Not better not worse - but when you passed OW - you had the skills to go dive with a buddy. That was the benefit.

In some parts of the world - like mine - that's still assumed. Hand-holding guides and DMs are about as common as hen's teeth where I live and do most of my diving

 

[dmaziuk]

Don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Won't even guess.

My (c) 2010 PADI OW manual states on p.199

So, because people differ in their succeptibility to decompression sickness, no dive table or computer can guarantee that decompression sickness will never occur, even though you dive within the table or computer limits.

IANAL either but I'd say in a sane legal system (not to be confused with the reader's jurisdiction) there would be no liability here. And mandating the use of a(ny) particular algorithm might actually create the liability where one previously didn't exist.

It also goes on to say on p.225

9. Keep thinking
Dive computers can fail just like any other piece of equipment

yadda yadda yadda.

Keep thinking -- I like that. I forgot it was there.