What are the responsibilities of a DM/Guide

[mi000ke]

I think it's great that you are taking your personal safety seriously and recognizing the limitations of being buddied with the DM. But don't for a minute think that simply carrying a pony will make you any safer. It seems intuitive that it would, but there is no evidence that is does. There certainly are anecdotal indications that people 'feel' safer, but I think it's complicated as to whether or not that actually results in: A) greater safety, B) less safety (false confidence) or C) has no appreciable affect on actual safety. As an example, with the fatality in Cozumel that inspired this thread, the victim was found with plenty of air in her tank, as are many victims in dive accidents.

Everything else that you said in this post seems to me to be very well thought out, especially for a self described novice diver. I'm often in a similar situation in that I travel to Cozumel frequently by myself and am a de-facto solo diver within a group. I try to buddy up with another diver, and sometimes that works out well. The way I deal with the situation is simply to try to use my best judgement on the dives, stay close with the group and maintain good awareness. I do have fairly extensive dive training (DM, cave) and that has helped me to be a good problem solver and maintain good dive behavior and awareness. I think that's much more important than a pony bottle in OW, especially when there is a group present in the vicinity.

Agree wholeheartedly. I was planning to carry the pony only for gas redundancy, again either to surface if needed, or to buy time to get assistance from a group member or DM in case of a non-gas related situation when my DM "buddy" is not close enough at hand or is distracted (to tie back to the original post). I would not include the pony in my dive plan. (Hope said that correctly - meaning I would not plan to use the spare gas.) So it seems to me it would make me contingently safer as long as I respect the ever present dangers of diving - to your point B.

What truly confuses me is that given the type of dives I do (recreational reef and wall dives in warm, low-current, high visibility Carribean waters) how it would be possible for someone who is (as I hopefully am) very cautious and level-headed to die while diving, putting aside medical issues. I think I will have the air covered. I watch my NDL like a hawk. I have never seen anything on the dives I've done to get entangled in. And if I have a heart attack while diving at least it will have happened while doing something I like. Meanwhile just want to make sure that I can survive the few minutes it might take to get my DM buddy's attention if needed. I do like your reference to "good dive behavior and awareness" and agree that's key. Hope I'm moving in that direction after 35 dives. In fact, that would make a great separate topic as I sure would like to know more about what that means in a practical way.

 

[sheeper]

Who is the DM/guide's buddy?

and therefore I have many DMs taking the SDI Solo Diver class......

 

[Doc]

and therefore I have many DMs taking the SDI Solo Diver class......

Most DMs I've had in real world diving could have written that manual- even the many of them who have no official real certification. The most competent DMs I know live in grass shacks.

Expertise and motivation is sometimes quite subtle, that guy who speaks English better than you speak his language is likely watching you like the idiot c-card carrying tourists we are.

At this point, I've learned to not expect it or anything else, but also...at this point I have gained the ability to see some subtle things. Both ways.

 

[AdivingBel]

I was planning to carry the pony only for gas redundancy, again either to surface if needed, or to buy time to get assistance from a group member or DM in case of a non-gas related situation when my DM "buddy" is not close enough at hand or is distracted

I apologize in advance if this sounds a bit harsh (I'm using the generic you; not meant as a personal attack, but your post brings it to mind), but this is kind of a pet peeve. I guess I don't understand the insistence on using the group guide as a dive buddy. Aside from the safety issues (divided responsibilities), I see it as poor form relative to the other divers in the group. You aren't the only diver that hired the guide. Nothing is free as in "free guide." If there is a guide in the water, the group pays for him one way or another. The rest of the divers, if they choose to follow the guide, have expectations of the guide that don't include your buddy needs.

If you are diving alone then it's your responsibility to procure a buddy. That process should start as soon as you know you'll be diving alone. You can address it as early as discussing it with the dive op prior to booking. You can continue the process upon arrival at the shop/boat the day of the dive. Start socializing with other divers upon arrival with the intent of finding other solo divers or joining another buddy pair. If the dive op has good customer service, they will assist you. Among the other divers you'll probably find a suitable situation. My experience is that divers are a pretty amenable bunch if approached in a friendly, forthright, intelligent fashion. After all, most have been in the same situation at some point and it's not an unusual request. Don't wait until you get to the dive site, then raise your hand and say I don't have a buddy. It puts the DM/guide in a bad situation. It also shows poor planning and a lack of situational awareness on your part, both anathema to finding willing dive buddies. At that point I'm prepared to raise my hand, vote for a shark dive, and use "that guy" for chum.

If all of this sounds like too much hassle ( I get it. I hate undo hassle on a dive vacation), hire a private guide as your buddy at the outset. You'll probably have a more enjoyable dive. Or go ahead with your pony, but get the training/cert necessary to solo dive in a non-private scenario and be sure to clear it with the dive op prior to booking.

Divers in general are pretty helpful and easy going (especially on vacation) as long as they don't feel taken advantage. Dive safe and be respectful of the others on the boat. All IMHO.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Agree wholeheartedly. I was planning to carry the pony only for gas redundancy, again either to surface if needed, or to buy time to get assistance from a group member or DM in case of a non-gas related situation when my DM "buddy" is not close enough at hand or is distracted (to tie back to the original post). I would not include the pony in my dive plan. (Hope said that correctly - meaning I would not plan to use the spare gas.) So it seems to me it would make me contingently safer as long as I respect the ever present dangers of diving - to your point B.

What truly confuses me is that given the type of dives I do (recreational reef and wall dives in warm, low-current, high visibility Carribean waters) how it would be possible for someone who is (as I hopefully am) very cautious and level-headed to die while diving, putting aside medical issues. I think I will have the air covered. I watch my NDL like a hawk. I have never seen anything on the dives I've done to get entangled in. And if I have a heart attack while diving at least it will have happened while doing something I like. Meanwhile just want to make sure that I can survive the few minutes it might take to get my DM buddy's attention if needed. I do like your reference to "good dive behavior and awareness" and agree that's key. Hope I'm moving in that direction after 35 dives. In fact, that would make a great separate topic as I sure would like to know more about what that means in a practical way.

Wow you can't imagine getting killed because you have a pony and are careful.... It is the ocean,. A ton of stuff can happen and even if you do everything perfectly, a bigger, stronger buddy can easily kill you. You have a few dozen dives. After you have seen people killed, crippled and injured, you may begin to gain some respect. After you have done a few really stupid things, your perception may change.

Ever blown through a stop sign or a traffic signal simply due to distraction??? I probably sound harsh, but your attitude comes off like a 16 yr old who has had a driver's license for 3 months.

 

[mi000ke]

your attitude comes off like a 16 yr old who has had a driver's license for 3 months.

True that

 

[mi000ke]

I apologize in advance if this sounds a bit harsh (I'm using the generic you; not meant as a personal attack, but your post brings it to mind), but this is kind of a pet peeve. I guess I don't understand the insistence on using the group guide as a dive buddy.

First, no problem being harsh - I appreciate honest feedback, so thanks.

Second, as I mentioned, I buddy with the DM at their instruction not at my insistence - and I think that happens a lot. I raised the question as to whether this was an OK thing for a DM to do, as I have come to the same conclusion that this may not be a good thing at least as far as safety. (and I always ask the dive op before I book if they will take a single). But you make a good point.

 

[dmaziuk]

What truly confuses me is ... how it would be possible for someone who is (as I hopefully am) very cautious and level-headed to die while diving...

Yup. It's usually the one you don't see coming that gets you.

In our next exciting instalment: always finding stuff in the last place you look.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Yup. It's usually the one you don't see coming that gets you.

In our next exciting instalment: always finding stuff in the last place you look.

A few ways things could go south on a dive or a dve boat....


Getting out of the water, you follow too close and the buddy on the ladder falls and bashes your skull in with the bottom of his tank and because you didn’t put air in your BC, you sink and die.

You jump in heavy and forget to turn both tanks on. (I’ve done this)

You fail to properly note the nitrox mix and tox out or get really bent.

You forget you are wearing a weight belt on the boat, fall over and cant swim with dive booties.

Some clown loses a weightbelt and it falls 30 feet, knocks you out and nobody notices.

You are involved in an underwater rescue and are so involved that you forget to exhale in the chaos and blow a lung.

You roll off the boat, your go pro falls off your head, you try to look for it.. the wind is strong and the waves are rough and you get under the keel and the rudder comes down and splits your skull.


You get tangled in a gill net and drop your knife.


You get bad air.

You have water in your tank and the dip tube is out and you suck up water, have a larengyeal spasm, don’t know what to do about it and die.


You pick up a cone shell and get a lethal sting.

You get nailed by a box jelly, and have an allergic reaction and die.

You are wearing something shiny and a barracuda comes by and cuts an artery and you don’t get it controlled.


A shark hits your calf when he misses biting the lionfish you speared. You bleed out.

You are doing an anchor dive from a big boat in rough conditions, just under the surface your fin or mask strap fails, you pop to the surface and while you are distracted for 2 seconds the keel of a 30 ton boat smashes your skull.

You get bit by an eel and you freak out and ascend from 8 feet holding your breath and blow a lung.

You buddy freaks out steals your reg, you can’t find your octo and he is too heavy and you both drown.

And on and on...the analogy toward driving a vehicle is relevant. you can be the best most careful driver, but conditions or other drivers can easily create situations that are unrecoverable..

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

A few ways things could go south on a dive or a dve boat....


Getting out of the water, you follow too close and the buddy on the ladder falls and bashes your skull in with the bottom of his tank and because you didn’t put air in your BC, you sink and die.

You jump in heavy and forget to turn both tanks on. (I’ve done this)

You fail to properly note the nitrox mix and tox out or get really bent.

You forget you are wearing a weight belt on the boat, fall over and cant swim with dive booties.

Some clown loses a weightbelt and it falls 30 feet, knocks you out and nobody notices.

You are involved in an underwater rescue and are so involved that you forget to exhale in the chaos and blow a lung.

You roll off the boat, your go pro falls off your head, you try to look for it.. the wind is strong and the waves are rough and you get under the keel and the rudder comes down and splits your skull.


You get tangled in a gill net and drop your knife.


You get bad air.

You have water in your tank and the dip tube is out and you suck up water, have a larengyeal spasm, don’t know what to do about it and die.


You pick up a cone shell and get a lethal sting.

You get nailed by a box jelly, and have an allergic reaction and die.

You are wearing something shiny and a barracuda comes by and cuts an artery and you don’t get it controlled.


A shark hits your calf when he misses biting the lionfish you speared. You bleed out.

You are doing an anchor dive from a big boat in rough conditions, just under the surface your fin or mask strap fails, you pop to the surface and while you are distracted for 2 seconds the keel of a 30 ton boat smashes your skull.

You get bit by an eel and you freak out and ascend from 8 feet holding your breath and blow a lung.

You buddy freaks out steals your reg, you can’t find your octo and he is too heavy and you both drown.

And on and on...the analogy toward driving a vehicle is relevant. you can be the best most careful driver, but conditions or other drivers can easily create situations that are unrecoverable..

I think I'll pass on sharing this list with my OW students on Saturday