Solved: LGBTQIA people. Is there a need for a sub-forum?

[El Hefe 612]

Okay… First, I know I'm new here. Second, I'm genuinely curious. And third, I read the entire 18-page thread of the "LGBTQ Divers?" question. As a openly gay, married man I would love to have a place to connect with other gay men, women, and like-minded individuals to discuss dive travel opportunities, to find dive buddies without having to worry about whether or not they might have a problem with me, and to feel comfortable talking about things that might impact us.


If possible, I'd like to have a board created under Non-Geographic Clubs called:


LGBTQIA Divers and Their Friends


I have spent the past week-and-a-half searching the internet (and this board) for such clubs, and I was surprised how lacking they were. It's been six years since the original question was posted in the thread referenced above. I know if I'm interested, that there are probably many others who would be too, but they may just be afraid to ask. Many of the responses in the thread above were not very understanding of what it is like living as an LGBTQIA individual in a predominantly heteronormative global society. Having such a space is not about excluding anyone, it's about having space where we don't have to worry about being who we are and can focus on what we love - diving (among many other things).


Thanks!

 

[diver0008]

The example that I gave is this thread in itself. Please tell me how I'm misjudging you?

This thread is about the establishment of a special category sub-forum.

My confusion is that I do not see the relevance of sexuality to scuba diving, as it relates to the category in question.

I have been on many dive trips, on many dive boats, with many divers. I cannot see how sexual orientation plays into the activity. We all buy gear and tickets, take classes, book hotel rooms and go for dinner. We sit on bouncy boats and jump in the water, take pictures and videos and show them to our friends. When home, we anxiously await the next trip.

So please, and I am not asking you to humor me, I really do not know what kind of scuba diving discussion could be had that would be different for a gay person than for a straight person.

 

[Gareth J]

I think it is difficult for those not in the LGBTQIA grouping to make a comment on the need, or lack of it for a separate sub forum. To a greater or lesser degree I thing if people from this grouping feel the need then ok.

I do sometimes wonder if it is helpful to highlight individual differences, be they sexuality, religion, race, or politics. I would much rather highlight those areas that make us the same, or we have in common, to build friendships and understanding. I would like to think that my mixing with other people of differing interests, religion, education, race or political interests (or sexuality) helps me be a more rounded individual, and I am then in a position to take a more enlightened and educated view on things. That said, some people are still people I would chose to avoid, not because of their religion etc, but because they are unpleasant, disrespectful, confrontational, or some other reason I don't like them. Life is to short to have to spend time with people you don't like if you don't need to.

I have 'guested' (way back in the past), on a number of trips run by what was known as GLUG at the time. (Gay and Lesbian Underwater Group). Personally, other than knowing I was with GLUG they could have been any of the groups I have dived with over the years.
There was a general level of piss taking (this may well be more of a British thing than a USA thing). Generally surrounding diving ability, or lack there of. We had good dive trips, and bad trips, not because of the individuals, but the conditions on the day. Some people where friendly and welcoming, others kept them selves to themselves - just like other trips.
The piss taking was less than the military groups I have been with (nothing is out of bounds, its full on and continuous. the worse the insult the closer friends every one is). But probably more than high female ratio groups I have dived with.

Diving has allowed me to meet some wonderful people, people I would never have met without the diving. The joy for me, (other than the diving,) is the fact that we have something we enjoy and want to share even though, on the face of it we have nothing in common. We have become friends. I have friends who are ex miners, night club owners, fashion designers, software specialist, engineers, doctors, nurses, scientist, teachers, business men, plumbers, electricians, farmers, truck drivers, soldiers, airmen, sailors. The more diverse the group the more entertaining.

Gareth

 

[Blasto]

So back to scubaboard..... I wonder how could a sub-forum draw "unwanted" attention.

I've seen it in other places and other contexts - subforums on controversial issues do occasionally draw unwanted (no quote marks) attention from certain people who come to such a forum for no other reason than to bash it.

 

[Emnb]

So please, and I am not asking you to humor me, I really do not know what kind of scuba diving discussion could be had that would be different for a gay person than for a straight person.

I am certainly not trying to humor you, nor am I simply being contrary. I am just attempting to put it into perspective for you so that you can understand. In fact, I wouldn't be trying if I thought you were incapable of understanding.

The point I am trying to get across is that simply because it does not bother you, or you do not see what type of discussions might fall under this umbrella, does not mean that there aren't any. I'm not sure how else I can explain that to you.

The part that is exceedingly difficult to illuminate is that, as you say, when we are taking classes, bouncing in boats, sharing pictures (forgive me but the quoting function is not working right on my dinosaur phone ), there are gay people around you who are purposely obfuscation their personal lives because either they are scared (depending on location and their general feelings about the people around them), or because they don't feel like explaining, answering questions or having their identity scrutinized. Just because you wouldn't do it--and I believe you wouldn't--doesn't mean that others don't. I bet a majority of gay SB members would attest to that.

 

[Ana]

I've seen it in other places and other contexts - subforums on controversial issues do occasionally draw unwanted (no quote marks) attention from certain people who come to such a forum for no other reason than to bash it.

But that's the thing... If I was to post details of my dive this past weekend or my plans for tomorrow's dive it will definitely become a controversial issue, but I have the solo forum. It helps to limit the unwanted attention to less than if i post in the basic forum.
The existence of LGBTQIA individuals IS controversial, as long as that fact continues they certainly can use a subforum. Having that extra forum on Scubaboard won't make any impact on the other forums, moderators already said it wouldn't take more time for them to moderate an additional forum, why would anyone be opposed to it?

Seriously... would a straight potential new diver be affected by this site having that extra sub forum? How about a diver with 9 thousand dives? or anyone in between?

We are no deciding if PADI is better than NAUI or if it is lame to say that a mask in the forehead is a sign of distress or if an open water diver can dive to a wreck in 87 feet of water.... a group of divers asked for a sub forum ... if there's unwanted attention to some of the posts in that forum, then it will be just like the rests of the sub forums around here.

 

[RayfromTX]

There seems to be a lot of confirmation bias at work here. Posts that are made which point out reasons that a subforum such as this would fulfill a need are summarily dismissed or marginallized. The people that I would expect to question the need for the subforum have not posted here and people that I have seen make thoughtful posts on SB related to other topics repeat their opinion that it is not needed or that they don't understand why it would be. Perhaps they feel ok about questioning the needs of others not like them because they feel they are tolerant and open minded. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know.

Those that don't think that the subforum is needed seem unable to consider that when you question the need for a space to openly discuss the issues that arise for the LGBTQIA community when it comes to diving you are proving the need exists. Saying the need doesn't exist doesn't mean it doesn't and it would be better to pause, step back and give it time. You may see why it is needed as the discussions in the new sub-forum develop.

Regardless, this will be a chance for many people to continue to grow their understanding of each other and that is always always always a good thing.

 

[Blasto]

But that's the thing... If I was to post details of my dive this past weekend or my plans for tomorrow's dive it will definitely become a controversial issue, but I have the solo forum. It helps to limit the unwanted attention to less than if i post in the basic forum.

Well, yes. This is why I wouldn't mind such a forum. But also why it's probably better for it to stay low-profile like the solo diving forum, so that it's used for discussions within the group, rather than for discussion between the group and those opposed to it.

We are no deciding if PADI is better than NAUI or if it is lame to say that a mask in the forehead is a sign of distress or if an open water diver can dive to a wreck in 87 feet of water....

Which we should. These are diving issues - this forum's raison d'etre is to discuss them. Politics and sexuality are not diving issues. Controversial issues tend to create conflict; discussing diving issues is unquestionably worth it nonetheless.

 

[diver0008]

Those that don't think that the subforum is needed seem unable to consider that when you question the need for a space to openly discuss the issues that arise for the LGBTQIA community when it comes to diving you are proving the need exists.

Yours was a good reply, but I do not agree.

I do not think that questioning something is the same as denying its right to exist, nor do I think asking questions about why it needs to exist in itself makes it necessary. I'm quite sure that purporting the latter is some sort of logical fallacy.

It will most assuredly exist, to no one's detriment, but my question remains; why is it necessary? What can gay people discuss about diving that cannot be discussed with the understanding and advice of the general community? How does one's sexuality make their diving any different? The same could be said for race or religion. To me they are all irrelevant when it comes to diving; we're all just a bunch of mammals in westuits.

All bubbles pop when they reach the surface, so, I am curious, genuinely curious, but admittedly skeptical. What's in the bubble? My gut tells me this is politics. Assertive identity poilitics with no real purpose but establishment for its own sake. The OP has no diving experience, is not even certified, has been a member for only a matter of weeks, makes a somewhat controversial demand, and is rather quickly a staff member. This is abnormal.

I think that this type of discriminatory populism, however trendy, is actually counterproductive and regressive in the end. Identity politics, in a large part, got Donald Trump elected president. I'm just a little sad to see it blowing bubbles here; this is not Fakebook.

So please, prove my gut wrong. As moot as this all is most surely to be, just an example or two of what scuba-related might be discussed that requires this "safe space".

In lieu of any response, I suppose I'll just have to peek in and find out for myself.

 

[Emnb]

What can gay people discuss about diving that cannot be discussed with the understanding and advice of the general community? How does one's sexuality make their diving any different? The same could be said for race or religion. To me they are all irrelevant when it comes to diving.

Haha, serves me right for trying..I addressed all of this in my reply that you ignored. Count me out of the dead horse beating.

 

[uncfnp]

Two minutes on SB and within seconds gets approval for a subform and becomes a staff member?

Please add poll choice for "Does this thread have an agenda." Then move it to the Pub where it belongs.