Boat captain encouraging wreck penetration

[Jack Hammer]

It's all about knowing your limitations.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Marie, some ships have been gutted of most hazards and sunk as dive attractions/artificial reefs and they are just swimthrus, with holes every few feet.
The great lakes are not known for crystal clear water so I understand your concern.
Compare these two videos, one is a "wreck" the other is a reef. Both have similar restrictions.
It is up to each diver to know their comfort level/risk tolerance.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

This is Basic with special rules. I applaud @Marie13 's good sense on knowing her limits and being a good buddy to a newby. I also think it is great to have threads like this encouraging new divers to think about what they were told in training regarding staying within their limits. I agree we are all adults capable of making our own choices but some people may feel "pressure to do trust me dives" based on dive briefs. Discussions like this one give the more umm... timid divers encouragement to say no when appropriate.

I guess for me the concern is where to draw the line. What made it feel like he was "encouraging unsafe behavior" rather than just giving a through dive brief? Did this make anyone feel "pressured"? I guess it is all about degree.

imho Just adding a comment that those who are not qualified should remain outside the wreck would perhaps cover the captain's liability but not actually have any significant impact on the diver's decisions. Adults making adult decisions can really get their backs up if someone appears to be "talking down" to them.

I wasn't there.. I don't know.. but I think this is a worth while discussion

 

[KenGordon]

What i want from a briefing is the non obvious or atypical risks. Now those may depend on the audience, so the skipper needs to know both the site and who he is talking to.

Classics are where the wreck is well known but changing over time. Eventually wrecks collapse, and being warned that some section or another is moving and so not so accessible or outright dangerous is useful. Similarly there may be inviting holes which are known to be particularly risky. In our conditions a common risk is accidentally going inside. That depends on the wreck and it's shape. These are the things you want to hear from the skipper.

You have been trained to do all the breathing in and out stuff, he doesn't need to remind you of that. Repeating unnecessary warnings will only lead to the audience tuning out and ignoring or missing the important points.

My favourite recent briefing involved not touching or bringing up anything that looked like cheese...

Ken

PS what do the relatives think of you referring to those who died as 'screaming'? Is that a common turn of speech? Do you apply it to more recent conflicts too?

 

[lowviz]

...//... Adults making adult decisions can really get their backs up if someone appears to be "talking down" to them. ...

Yes and no.

I tend to let it roll off my back and filter the yap for content. What is the REAL message? There is some benefit to being a "listener". I'm not a very good follower, but I do listen.

 

[w3dge]

Sounds like a proper dive brief and exactly what I would expect to hear - here in the UK at least.

If you don't know that its not a great idea to get yourself inside of something when you don't know what you're doing, you've no business being on a dive boat without professional supervision imo.

Clearly you did know your limits, and respected them - that's great

 

[Marie13]

Marie has taken some heat to the tune of well, "make decisions for yourself, be responsible, know your limitations", yada yada. Of course that's true--I didn't see where Marie didn't do these things. I don't like to comment on such happenings when I haven't actually been there. But from what she says, I completely agree with her. Big reason being that from all I've read and learned through PADI, entering an overhead environment without proper training is maybe the number two no-no after "never hold your breath". OK, if the Capt. absolutely knew that everyone on board was in fact qualified, that would change my response. If he did know that he probably wouldn't have to encourage them since they probably were planning on penetration anyway.
If I were on that boat, as a retired DM, I'd be very tempted to speak up. And I almost never open my big mouth except on Scubaboard.

Of the 5 divers on board, at least 4 were unknown to the captain. Me, the gal who was my buddy (1st time on the Great Lakes, but she has done boat diving in tropical places), an instructor from Europe on vacation (used to cold water and low viz), and a guy who hadn't been on the lake (or perhaps even diving) in a while, but appeared to be doing a "shakedown" dive before an upcoming tropical vacation.

What also raised a red flag to me right at the beginning is that the captain didn't want to see my c-card. I had printed out the waiver from the op website and brought it with me. Captain said people rarely did that and he didn't need to see my card as a result. I still showed it to him. As what I understand from the charter I usually dive with is that the CG requires people to have their c-cards on them. No c-card, you don't dive. Period.

This charter was unusual in my experience as the guy serving as crew actually got into the water with us. First dive, we did groups of 3. I dislike that, as I find more than 2 people awkward, but I went along with it. The guy serving as crew is actually an instructor and chose to go with buddy and I. We told him right off the bat we weren't penetrating and he was fine with that. Second dive, we did buddy pairs. The instructor/crew went with the guy doing the shakedown dive as he had sucked his tank down very quickly and had "run out of air" (words of instructor/crew).

My buddy's computer had decided to not function a day or do before the charter, but captain told her to still come when she called beforehand to ask about it, as other divers would have computers. I scratched my head at that, didn't say anything, and gave her my backup computer.

Captain wanted everyone back on the boat with 500 psi on the 2nd dive. That felt too little to me with the bad viz/depth (even though I was carrying my AL30 pony), so I told buddy our turn pressure was 1000 psi. We both climbed back on the boat with about 800.

 

[DevonDiver]

Adults making adult decisions can really get their backs up if someone appears to be "talking down" to them.

Change the word "adult" to "informed".

 

[lowviz]

...//... What also raised a red flag to me right at the beginning is that the captain didn't want to see my c-card. ...

Maybe a bit over the top for now, but that is where you are headed. Deal with it.

 

[Marie13]

"Badges...we don't need no stinking badges..."