New divers and buying equipment
- Thread starter GlennL
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Bob DBF
Contributor
I understand what you mean, however I pointed out the terms have changed useage over the years since they were coined meaning something different than they did originally in a previous post.
ScubaPro Air 2, the first integrated reg, was marketed in 1979.
Where I was in NorCal the safe second (octo) had not caught on but it was known and seen occasionally in the late '70's, however OW instruction was for buddy breathing ( also changed, now referring to breathing off a buddys second second stage). I would bet the practice came from cave diving useage much earlier, or possibly wreck diving.
Bob
If your opinion on safe seconds is based around only what's best for you and not what is safe for the people you are diving with go do the solo diver course and stop diving with others. I've never seen actual evidence that an OOA diver will go for the reg in your mouth, maybe that is case for the guys running with everything black and the reg in your mouth is easy to indentify. Personally if you are running a primary donate system (long hose/air2 ECT.) You should have it bright yellow to save vital seconds of confusion.
The problem with air 2 and the like is they are mostly sold to newer diver as a convenience without thought to implications. I almost fell for it but I went and had a think and a bit of research. Safety starts before your climb in the water.
The problem with air 2 and the like is they are mostly sold to newer diver as a convenience without thought to implications. I almost fell for it but I went and had a think and a bit of research. Safety starts before your climb in the water.
AMEN, Scubamat!!!! With the attitude some of these divers have I think if I had to dive with them I would invest in a pony bottle and just dive alone myself. Safety does start before you get in the water and as far as equipment goes, it should start before you buy it.
As to getting a reg ripped out of your mouth, I don't know how often it happens either, but I know this...if you have no yellow octo for an OOA diver to find and the only reg he can see in a moment of panic is the one in your mouth....guess who has ownership in getting it ripped out???? I mean, is it really any wonder what the OOA diver is going to do in that scenario, irregardless of his calmness, skill level or the organization that did his training???
As to the yellow hose thing....I don't know any diver alive today that don't know and fully understand exactly what that yellow hose and reg is all about. We spent time learning it in the classroom, practicing with it in the pool and demonstrating the skill on our checkout dives...in all this time the safe second {air II} was only very briefly mentioned in the classroom video. I guess I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the safe second system if practically all divers knew about it like they do the yellow hose and reg. Still, with the "worry about myself 1st" attitude I wonder why they are so eager to leave themselves no choice but to remove their primary???
Are you going to refuse to dive with others who don't have a yellow hose?
Depending on where you dive, you might very well encounter divers without yellow hoses. Accept the fact and familiarize yourself with other gear configurations.
If someone's diving sidemount or backmounted doubles,they won't have a yellow hose. As a new diver, I had buddies who do backmounted doubles or sidemount. No yellow hose in sight. It wasn't a problem.
You seem to be taking it as a personal offense that other divers don't have a yellow hose.
Depending on where you dive, you might very well encounter divers without yellow hoses. Accept the fact and familiarize yourself with other gear configurations.
If someone's diving sidemount or backmounted doubles,they won't have a yellow hose. As a new diver, I had buddies who do backmounted doubles or sidemount. No yellow hose in sight. It wasn't a problem.
You seem to be taking it as a personal offense that other divers don't have a yellow hose.
What you don't get is that most experienced divers don't pick gear based on what other divers want, they pick other divers based on competence. I can tell you that your attitude would keep me from ever having you in a group I was leading.
If you really have less than 24 dives then you don't know what's easier in a panic situation, and probably shouldn't be trying to educate far more experienced divers about, well, anything. You should be observing and learning and asking questions. Especially considering that the majority of yellow octo type divers know nothing about gear configuration and have it flopping out in the current, which is dangerous.
Not necessarily true.
My deco bottle reg set has a yellow hose. I have been out on several mixed boats where I was doing a deco dive and others were doing recreational dives.
If someone grabbed my yellow hose and started to try breathing from it, they would be very disappointed (because it stays turned off until I need it).
Deco bottles do not come into this discussion. We're in the new divers area. The average SM or BM doubles diver a newbie might encounter or dive with isn't likely to have a deco bottle (out at quarry diving site, for example).
I was trained to ALWAYS do a buddy check prior to getting in the water. It helps for my safety and that of my buddy. It seems to me that in doing so, any gear configuration concerns/issues/unfamiliarity would be addressed. If diving in a group, take the time to see how the others in the group have their gear set up as well. This takes next to no time, all told less than a minute if done efficiently. Who knows, you might learn something about gear or why they dive with the gear they have chosen. Different alone does not mean wrong, inferior, or dangerous.
If a proper buddy check and group gear check is done, the only time a diver should be unfamiliar with whatever setup you have chosen in an OOA situation is when that diver is not part of your group, is separated from THEIR buddy, and HAS RUN OUT OF AIR. That diver will have made at least two mistakes by this point.
Of course I want everyone to survive in such a situation. I have selected the gear I dive for specific reasons. I believe my choices will aid the distressed diver in such a situation; you may not agree. Until the scuba gods decree everyone use the same figuration, to each his own!
If a proper buddy check and group gear check is done, the only time a diver should be unfamiliar with whatever setup you have chosen in an OOA situation is when that diver is not part of your group, is separated from THEIR buddy, and HAS RUN OUT OF AIR. That diver will have made at least two mistakes by this point.
Of course I want everyone to survive in such a situation. I have selected the gear I dive for specific reasons. I believe my choices will aid the distressed diver in such a situation; you may not agree. Until the scuba gods decree everyone use the same figuration, to each his own!
Imagine my relief...I can personally guarantee you that you sir will NEVER "lead" me in anything.
Some of you folks are confused...well please don't be confused, I am not the scuba police. Use the gear you want. Generally when folks get this upset and don't want to see both sides of an issue it's because they have already spent money on it and no one likes to back up.
Number of dives is interesting...it took me zero dives to know that I don't want my primary out of my mouth if at all avoidable. "What you don't get".......with 2499.......
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