New divers and buying equipment

[Marie13]

I haven't seen it mentioned (does not mean it hasn't been). Remember what you were taught in scuba class? Buddy breathing was not just giving your octopus to your buddy in trouble. It was also sharing a single primary 2nd stage.

Thanks for this thread. It got me to thinking about my own setup and briefing my better half about what to do "if..."

Buddy breathing off one second stage was not taught in my SDI OW class a year ago.

 

[mcohen1021]

Buddy breathing off one second stage was not taught in my SDI OW class a year ago.

WOW!!!!!! I'm not saying I am shocked, but I am a little.

I recall my buddy and me clutching on to each others BC and one diver controlling the 2nd stage from mouth to mouth, blowing bubbles when not breathing on the reg. This was also mostly pre-computer days and you followed your smallest bubbles on the ascent.

That was 1989, and we taught that in our classes until I retired from dive-mastering around 2000.

 

[Marie13]

WOW!!!!!! I'm not saying I am shocked, but I am a little.

I recall my buddy and me clutching on to each others BC and one diver controlling the 2nd stage from mouth to mouth, blowing bubbles when not breathing on the reg. This was also mostly pre-computer days and you followed your smallest bubbles on the ascent.

That was 1989, and we taught that in our classes until I retired from dive-mastering around 2000.

That was 17 years ago. Just because something used to be done, doesn't mean it's the end all and be all.

 

[mcohen1021]

That was 17 years ago. Just because something used to be done, doesn't mean it's the end all and be all.

Correct, but it just surprises me that it's not taught. IMO I feel it should be taught. Theres alot to be said about how much more calm your buddy becomes when you're clutching on to them

 

[msinc]

I'm going to say this nicely...Divers configure their gear the way they want for personal preference/diving style. Why should they have to take newbie divers or those only familiar with one gear configuration into consideration? If their buddies are told what to do in an OOA situation, that's all you can count on.

You don't have to take any one else into consideration. The gear choices we all make are ours and ours alone, period end of story. My question for you is this: since an octo/spare air is something we wear totally and completely in consideration of others that we dive with, then given your statements why do you bother to have one at all??? I mean, you aren't the one using it, it IS for the rest of the diving world if needed, so why not make it easy?? If you run out or are low on air another reg on the same "out of air" tank wont do you any good. Since you don't want to "consider" other divers, why not get rid of the spare air/octo and strap on a pony bottle????
I do use an octo out of personal preference...I "prefer" to make it as easy as I can if someone's life is at stake.

 

[Bob DBF]

New diver that was trained to look for the yellow hose on your right swims up to you and don't find an octo...because it's not there.

If a a diver is only trained to look for a yellow hose and yellow faceplate, they should take more time choosing their next instructor, 'cause the last one didn't do them any favors.

The fact is if a random OOA diver comes to you and doesn't ask, or see, a yellow second (say you are in perfect trim), they will take the one out of your mouth. It's happened to me a few times over the decades. So I wouldn't worry about him drowning, I'd worry about your composure and ability to find your other reg. When actual buddy breathing was taught, a diver was also taught techniques to control the OOA diver, both are gone now.

I have never owned a yellow hose or used a yellow reg, a lot of divers I run across don't bother with this convention. It's a dangerous world.



Bob

 

[stuartv]

I haven't seen it mentioned (does not mean it hasn't been). Remember what you were taught in scuba class? Buddy breathing was not just giving your octopus to your buddy in trouble. It was also sharing a single primary 2nd stage.

SDI doesn't teach that any more and I don't think PADI does, either. However, we do still teach to hold onto each other's BCDs when sharing air.

You don't have to take any one else into consideration. The gear choices we all make are ours and ours alone, period end of story. My question for you is this: since an octo/spare air is something we wear totally and completely in consideration of others that we dive with, then given your statements why do you bother to have one at all??? I mean, you aren't the one using it, it IS for the rest of the diving world if needed, so why not make it easy?? If you run out or are low on air another reg on the same "out of air" tank wont do you any good. Since you don't want to "consider" other divers, why not get rid of the spare air/octo and strap on a pony bottle????
I do use an octo out of personal preference...I "prefer" to make it as easy as I can if someone's life is at stake.

I have a redundant second stage for MY convenience. It is so that if I decide to share air with someone, I can give them one while having my own - i.e. so I don't have to pass a 2nd stage back and forth for us both to breathe. I rig it the way I find convenient for me.

I HOPE that my situational awareness will prevent me from ever being mugged and having my reg simply taken from me. However, if it does happen, well, my backup is hanging right there under my chin where I KNOW where it is.

And when I say "my situational awareness", I don't just mean my awareness in the moment of my immediate surroundings. I ALSO mean the bigger picture. Things like being aware of who else is on the boat I'm diving from and some idea of what their experience and skill level is. Being aware of what other divers are in the water anywhere nearby. Being aware of how long we've been in the water, so I have a better idea of when people might start to run low on air. Being aware of how well the divers in my general vicinity are sticking together with their buddy. Etc.

 

[Bob DBF]

My question for you is this: since an octo/spare air is something we wear totally and completely in consideration of others...

Actually I have a safe second in order to make my life easier. I dove around 20 years without one. When the training change was made to use a safe second instead of buddy breathing, not saying I am against it since it is more convient, I decided it was easier to add one than teaching someone buddy breathing at the last minute.

My kit is made for my convience and configured for my dive, not necessarily to any particular convention.

And OOA divers watch out, sometimes I dive vintage, no safe second, SPG, or BC, so it will be an interesting experience.


Bob

 

[msinc]

Just so we are all on the same page...Bob DBF, to clarify, what I am calling a "safe second" {Atomic Aquatics??} or "Air II" {ScubaPro} is a regulator on the end of the BCD inflate/deflate hose in lieu of just the mouthpiece to manual inflate. This is the one you use and hand over your primary reg to the diver in need. What I am calling an "octo" is a second complete reg usually colored yellow and having a yellow hose clipped in the "triangle" {PADI}.
I am curious to know when these two different devices came into play...I know the "Octo" was used in 1989 for sure because that is the first time I saw one. I don't believe the hose or face plate on the reg was yellow though, I cant remember. It appears that the "safe second" BCD mounted reg is only a few years old...is that correct???
Stuartv, are you using a "safe second" on your bcd or an "octo"????

 

[Marie13]

You don't have to take any one else into consideration. The gear choices we all make are ours and ours alone, period end of story. My question for you is this: since an octo/spare air is something we wear totally and completely in consideration of others that we dive with, then given your statements why do you bother to have one at all??? I mean, you aren't the one using it, it IS for the rest of the diving world if needed, so why not make it easy?? If you run out or are low on air another reg on the same "out of air" tank wont do you any good. Since you don't want to "consider" other divers, why not get rid of the spare air/octo and strap on a pony bottle????
I do use an octo out of personal preference...I "prefer" to make it as easy as I can if someone's life is at stake.

I actually do sling a 30cft pony on nearly all my dives. My mindset is that I'm responsible for myself first, then buddy. The second second stage/octo/whatever you call it is just a normal part of my kit. Everything I've read about OOA incidents seems to indicate that the OOA diver will go for the reg in your mouth, not politely signal OOA and patiently wait for you to give them a reg.

Make it easy for them? They're going to go for a reg they know works. In your mouth.

I'd suggest you read Jim Lapenta's two book, especially the second one on Advanced training since you've already gone through OW.